I am on vacation this week and my internet connection is less than ideal. To give the JD Profiles the proper TLC (which in this case we’ll call Tweets, LinkedIn, and circulation), I’ve decided to postpone this week’s profile. Check back next week (and the week after, and the week after that….) We’ve got some good ones coming up!
In this new series, we are profiling legal professionals and J.D.s and asking them the hard questions that don’t always get answered in law school. For example, how did they find their job? What do they do on a day-to-day basis? And, was law school a worthwhile investment?
Philip Guzman worked in government and private practice before he became the Director of Public Service Programs at North Carolina Central University School of Law. He talks to us about his day-to-day responsibilities in the career services office as well as his career path to his ideal job or, as he calls it, “The Persistent Dream.” (Published in NALP Bulletin, Vol.22, September 2010.)
RecruiterEsq: Hi Phil, thank you for speaking to us today! You’re the Director of Public Service Programs at NCCU’s School of Law. Many of us have met with the career services office at our law schools but very few of us know what the career counselors do on a daily basis. What are your responsibilities in your position? What is a typical day like for you?
It’s crazy and varied. The one thing that I have to get used to is the many “administrative duties” that need to get done. I spend a great deal of my time speaking with attorneys to either line up speakers to come and speak with our students (I’m not above even ordering the food for the events – lots of NY pizza!), or to promote our school to law recruiters and potential employers. I like to walk the halls of the school during classes to show the students a visible Career Services presence (I even drop in and will sit in on classes to actually get back the feeling and experience what our students are going through). There is travel to conferences and job fairs. In addition, I also try and spend some time on scholarship – reading and writing in the field. Yes, that does include Twitter time!
The bulk of my time, however, is spent with the students – either speaking with them and helping them fashion their careers, reviewing and commenting on resumes, and conducting “mock” interviews to prepare them for their employment interviews. Interaction with the students is by far the best part of the job.
Ah, I miss the free pizza of law school activities. How did you obtain your current position? Did you move to North Carolina for the position?
I tell my story to all of my students for one reason – stay connected and network with local lawyers and local bar associations! I had decided that it was time to close my law practice and move back to my real passion the real love of my life – teaching. My wife and I chose to relocate to the Raleigh/Durham area for both personal and professional reasons: lovely climate (sometimes, I now realize), great medical facilities (we are parents of a special needs young adult), along with my ability to waive into the North Carolina Bar and continue practicing law if I so needed. In anticipation of our move, I contacted the Wake County Bar Association and was placed on their employment email “blasts.” It was through an email from the Bar that I became aware of the job opening at NCCU Law Career Services Offices. Had it not been for the “long-distance” networking that I did, I would have missed out on this very exciting position.
That’s awesome to hear of an e-mail blast working, especially an e-mail blast from a local bar association. Great story! Before your current position, you owned your own law firm. What advice do you have for people who want to become solos?
It will likely take a solo a few years to get his/her business running. Anticipate lean times at first and be ready to eat a lot of rice and beans until you get the business going. If you can’t make that commitment, and are NOT a “risk taker,” then don’t do it. Furthermore, try and keep your costs down at the beginning. Nothing fancy for an office. Either work at home, or see if you get an arrangement where you can work cases in exchange for rent for another lawyer. In addition, track down lawyers (through the Bar, of course) who know that you are out there and will refer cases to you. Also, get your name out into the community as inexpensively as possible, i.e. take out a room at a library (free) and do a free evening legal presentation to the community. Tell everyone you are out there! Remember, that even through all the hardship and angst of knowing where your next dollar is coming from, there still is nothing quite like being your own boss.
I can agree with that last point! Actually, I can agree with all of your points. Anything entrepreneurial is hard! Would you ever go back to practicing law?
No, I’m done. Not because I didn’t love it. I simply now wish to pursue teaching in the form of law school career counseling. (I have a teaching degree and have taught both on the high school and college levels.) It’s where my heart is right now. Now, that’s not to say that I wouldn’t go back into the courtroom with the clinical students here at NCCU Law. I still love a good legal fight in a just cause!
How did you decide to transition to career services?
In my article “The Persistent Dream,” I talked about knowing what my “dream job” was and not initially pursuing it. Truth be told, I have always wanted to teach. I started out teaching high school English before going to law school. While I was a solo practitioner, I reconnected with my teaching roots by teaching Criminal Justice and Evidence at Howard Community College in Columbia, Maryland. After a few years back in the classroom, I knew I was again “hooked” on education. For a lawyer who enjoys teaching, career services is the best of both worlds – I stay connected to the legal profession and get to teach at the same time! I couldn’t ask for more.
How did your role as an adjunct professor help you in your legal practice? What did you learn from teaching students about these subjects?
Getting back into the classroom as a professor sharpened my skills as a lawyer. For example, it was great to revisit all the Rules of Evidence, especially the exceptions to the Hearsay Rule. I would actually sit in the courtroom waiting for my cases to be called as I read my text book and prepared my classroom lessons. My colleagues kidded me unmercifully about my finally figuring out what to do in courtroom! I taught Criminal Justice (Levels I and II) and, as I said, Evidence. All my courses and my interchanges with my students energized me and definitely made me a better lawyer.
You’ve had experiences in private practice, solo practice, and as a government attorney at the Kings County District Attorney’s Office and the U.S. Department of Justice. How do you think this variety of experiences helps you connect with students in your current position?
These varied experiences help me connect with most students’ questions and aspirations. Having been in the private section with a large firm, a boutique, and then in a solo practice, I can assist those students with a preference for the private sector as to what it’s really like to work as an Associate. Also, with my public sector experience on the state and federal levels, I am able to guide students through the process of gaining summer and, eventually, full-time work if they have a public service bent. For better or worse, there are few job experiences that I am not familiar with and I enjoy passing on my experiences with my students. I believe that my background may also give me more credibility with my students as I have actually been in those jobs.
On the topic of variety, I agree that your experience gives you quite a bit of credibility. On the other hand, you always hear that a long resume with multiple moves is less than desirable. What advice do you have for people who have a lot of jobs on their resumes? Should they address this in a cover letter?
Lawyers make lateral moves for many reasons that are fully legitimate. Thus, making several moves in a relatively short time should not always be considered a negative – certainly not in these difficult times. Lawyers need to remember this as they apply for a new position and not be overly defensive about it during a new application cycle.
Whenever a candidate applies for a job whether s/he is an attorney making a lateral move, finding a new position after a layoff, or a graduating 3L, it is still about the “skill set” of the candidate and what he/she can specifically offer a firm/agency. Always, tailor your letter to the employer’s needs. A cover letter must highlight how the candidate’s work experience and varied skills will make him/her an asset to the specific organization to which the application has been forwarded. I believe that skill (and depending on the position- experience) is what the employer is looking for. Though there is no “one answer fits all situations,” I would not generally address the multiple job issue in the cover letter and leave it for the interview where it will, no doubt, be brought up in one form or another.
You and I met on Twitter. How is Twitter being used in law schools today?
Well, I can really only specifically speak for North Carolina Central University School of Law and myself, but I believe that Twitter is now a major engine of social media communication among the law school community – educators, administrators and, of course, students. I follow my career counseling colleagues in the field, both in and out the law school community, along with knowledgeable attorneys in all areas of the law. Twitter also helps me to follow trends and current issues and concerns in academia. For students, it is a way to communicate with one another and with professionals from other schools and all areas of practice. By the way, I would very much encourage law students to reach out to all the professionals from other schools who tweet. I would be surprised to find anyone in the Twitter community that would not take the time to speak with and answer law students’ questions and/or make referrals to people in a networking capacity.
What other tools do you use on a daily basis? E.g., technology, social networking sites, etc.
Though I know that Facebook is now a major social media outlet for law students and professionals (and I would encourage its use), I am a big time advocate of LinkedIn. Why? I feel that networking, networking, networking is the name of the game for professional attorney placement and I find LinkedIn’s a marvelous way for me to reach out to our alumni and attorneys in all areas of the country and in the varied specialty fields. To give you an example, yesterday a student came to my office seeking information on a patent law position in the Greensboro, NC area. It took me less than five minutes to locate an attorney alum, one of my contacts, who was more than willing to help the student. It was that easy (not always so, I know). I encourage all students to start and work their LinkedIn account while in law school and beyond.
That’s a great example of the effects of LinkedIn. And, I agree – students should start to work on their LinkedIn profiles while in law school. In this day in age, it’s essential for finding a job and staying on top of your professional reputation. Switching gears, as the Director of Public Service Programs, you must keep abreast of pro bono issues. What are some popular areas where people do pro bono work?
There are as many varied opportunities for pro bono work as there are areas of practice: Civil Rights, HIV/AIDS, Homeless, Housing, Immigration, and Tax just to name a few. Also, students need to remember that there are wealth of fellowship opportunities sponsored by foundations and law firms that are eager to assist and fund worthwhile pro bono projects. Some worthwhile resources include: (1) AALS Section on Pro Bono and Public Service Opportunities, (2) ABA Standing Committee on Pro Bono and Public Service and the Center for Pro Bono, (3) The Annual Equal Justice Works Conference and Fair ( a fantastic happening!), (4) Equal Justice Works (check the website), (5) PSLawNet, (6) Pro Bono Institute, and (7) Pro Bono Net . . to name a few. If you are looking for work in the area of pro bono, I would encourage students to check out these websites. This is so worthwhile! I love the passion of those interested in pro bono work!
How can pro bono work help in a lawyer’s career?
Pro bono career lawyers are a unique breed who get their career satisfaction in areas outside of monetary rewards, for sure. Beyond that, you will recall that I spoke of the importance of experience and “skill sets.” Pro bono work often gives an attorney first-hand and important experience in the specific law. An attorney can, no doubt, enhance his/her resume by working in a specific area of the law on a pro bono basis and then move to another position and point to vital experience gained in the pro bono arena.
In the NALP piece that you recently published, you recommend for attorneys to listen for “the inner call to their dream career.” What if that inner call is at a really low decibel? What are some ways to motivate it to speak louder, if you will?
That was the case with me at the outset. One needs to continue to seek and ask these questions: What do I enjoy? What excites me? What do I keep thinking about? . . . Now this is what I would really like to do !! . . . One needs to be persistent in seeking answers to these questions, then to apply the answers in developing strategies and the development of a game plan and then go out and to seek the job and career that answers all all of these introspective questions.
Another way to help ring the bell louder is to speak with other lawyers and develop “mentors” to help weave through the career selection maze. More times than not, you reach the point where there is only one clear dream career. Now, whether one chooses the road that will travel in the direction of that career, or another will often depend on a host of individual reasons.
Thank you again, Phil, for your time and insight. Mentors are vitally important. I hope your advice gave at least a few of our readers the knowledge to go out and pursue their dream career!
Philip Guzman serves as the Director of Public Service Programs at North Carolina Central University’s School of Law. He maintains the law school’s Twitter account as well as his personal Twitter account. He can also be reached on LinkedIn.
In or around October or November, I noticed that more and more people would list me on Twitter using a tool called Formulists. At first, I’ll admit, I was a little skeptical.
To a certain extent, it seemed like Formulists was a scam. Twitter has its own list builder. So, what would be the point of using a replica product? Especially one that seemed to promote itself at every turn? (How many times have you been added to a Twitter list and noticed that it was “generated by @formulists” in the description?) Plus, Formulists is not a separate platform like Hootsuite or TweetDeck so I couldn’t see the added value.
Nevertheless, I was intrigued.
As someone who has spent a great deal of time building and tweaking her Twitter lists (see: my AMLAWTweeple project), this notion of self-updating lists piqued my curiosity.
After exploring the site for a few minutes, however, the benefits of Formulists weren’t readily apparent. But, thankfully, Formulists uses Get Satisfaction, a feedback tool similar to UserVoice. (More law firms should implement feedback tools, but more on that at another time.)
I sent off a request: “What is the benefit of Formulists? Why would I use it instead of Twitter’s list option?”
I received an awesome response – and then a follow-up Power Point presentation(!) – from Natalie Michelson, Marketing Manager at Formulists, and I became a believer.
Formulists is not actually meant to be used instead Twitter’s list option but rather to complement it. A Formulists-made Twitter list, is still a Twitter list- viewable from your Twitter home page or client. However, the benefit of using Formulists to make some or all of your Twitter lists, is that Formulists takes care of a lot of the hard work for you that is involved in both list creation and list maintenance.
As one classic example, making a “locals” list of the people you follow manually, would require you to click on the profile pages of each person you follow, see where they are from and then manually add them to your “locals I follow” list. Using Formulists, you can filter all the people you follow by location within a minute Additionally, Formulists-made lists update themselves daily so that if you follow another person from you city, they will automatically be added to this list too.
Because they are dynamic and automatically-updated, Formulists lists can also be used to do things Twitter lists couldn’t do in the past, like show you who recently unfollowed you or who your friends talk to most. And because this information is being shown via a Twitter list, you can easily view and act on it from you Twitter client or homepage.
Here is one slide that I found particularly useful in the quick Power Point presentation she forwarded to me:
Mainly, I took Natalie’s advice and created lists to target potential clients by location. While I didn’t delete my old lists, I now use a few private lists that are, yes, generated by @Formulists.
Do you use Formulists? What do you think?
In this new series, we are profiling legal professionals and J.D.s and asking them the hard questions that don’t always get answered in law school. For example, how did they find their job? What do they do on a day-to-day basis? And, was law school a worthwhile investment?
Richard Russeth has worked in-house at various multi-national companies in the food industry since his graduation from the University of Minnesota Law School in 1982. In his roles as Assistant General Counsel and General Counsel, his clients may ask him questions relating to employment, intellectual property, or international tax law on any given day. Rather than focusing on one area of the law, Richard has become a rare entity – a self-proclaimed generalist. The Last Generalist talks with us once again about his career path, networking philosophies, technology, and the implications of the Food Safety Modernization Act for FDA lawyers.
RecruiterEsq: Thank you for speaking to us today!
Richard Russeth: Glad to have the opportunity!
We had spoken earlier over #LawJobChat about your career path. I’d like to follow-up here with a few more questions because you provided such valuable information. During #LawJobChat, you talked about how a GC at Pillsbury took a chance on you when you applied to intern there. Can you tell us more about how you went about applying for the position? What your interview process was like? And, how you demonstrated your abilities from the get-go?
It was so long ago that I got that law clerk job!
The “in” was actually through the Deputy General Counsel, Ronald Lund (who went on to be General Counsel of Medtronic) who I knew through family connections – family is your number one network opportunity, then friends, then business colleagues and then everything else from LinkedIn to Twitter and beyond.
While my network got me in the clerkship door, it was Ed Stringer, the GC (later appointed to MN Supreme Ct) who took the chance three years later to hire me full-time. In hindsight, I think the reason was that I always was looking for solutions, not just giving “legal advice.” It’s easy to write sterile legal advice – it’s far more effective to give practical, useable solutions to your clients. Saying “that looks risky” is easy – saying there are risks but here’s a pretty good map through the minefield, well, that’s a winner with any client.
What are some hot legal issues facing food industries?
Primarily, food safety. The Senate just passed a final version of the Food Safety Modernization Act (passed by the House this past summer) that is the biggest overhaul of our nation’s food safety laws since before WWII; working through the implications for our clients should keep us FDA focused lawyers very busy!
Hear that, Folks? Food safety/FDA law may be an area to check out! You’ve had to deal with corporate restructuring, mergers and acquisitions, and organizational changes. For example, you moved from The Pillsbury Company to Haagen-Daaz, one of Pillsbury’s wholly-owned subsidiaries. Later, you worked as VP & General Counsel for Cutlor Foods, which was then acquired by Danisco so you moved over to a new position there. Is this a usual trend in the in-house industry?
Businesses are in a constant cycle of mergers and acquisitions, and this has a significant impact on the in-house legal functions; this cycle has only accelerated in the course of my career. There can only be one GC in any organization so consolidation leaves someone one out of a job. The trick is to be ready to deal with that. You can’t ever have your head in the sand. Constantly acquiring new knowledge, new or upgraded skills, and new experience is essential. General Counsels may have a specialty or focus in their practice, but the word “General” really means something in my view. After all you are managing all of the corporations legal issues, not just those with which you may have the most experience. Keep reinventing yourself!
How did you decide to move from Haagen-Daaz to Cultor Food Science? Were you recruited or how did you find the position?
I wish I could say, “recruited” – it sounds so much better! But a few years after Pillsbury was acquired by what is now known as Diageo, the decision was made to relocate the Haagen-Dazs business from NJ to the HQ in Minneapolis, MN. I had been with Pillsbury/Diageo for almost 14 years at that point and I didn’t see a clear career path inside Diageo any longer – so I opted to “pursue other options.” My network steered me into the Cultor Foods job – networks did exist before LinkedIn, believe it or not. It’s just so easy to maintain and grow a network now that no one has any excuse.
Great point. Is there a difference between an assistant general counsel role and a GC?
The GC needs to make the “big calls” on a wide variety to issues – some she knows a lot about, some she knows little about. This is why a diverse background in the law is essential in my view – assistant GCs tend to be more specialized – at least in large legal departments. In a large legal department, the differences are quite large in terms of strategic goal setting, delegation and overall access to and support of senior management. But in the departments that I’ve headed up from five to fifteen people, the difference is pretty much academic, although the buck clearly does stop at my desk – as it should!
During the same #LawJobChat, you also mentioned taking advantage of Twitter and LinkedIn. How do you use both of those sites? What would be your response if a lawyer asked you, “Why would I use Twitter? What do I do on LinkedIn?”
I am participating in this interview because you and I got to know each other through #lawjobchat on Twitter!! I have met so many great lawyers and other professionals on Twitter and then networked in person at the ACC Annual Meeting and other events. As for LinkedIn, it is simply a way to keep your profile in public in a way that you never, ever could before. Is LinkedIn going to land a job for you all by itself – of course not, but its part of building and tracking your network in real time; all without taking up as much time as that task used to entail. And recruiters are combing it every day. LinkedIn is as essential as an email account.
In the past, attorneys working at law firms only had to think about corporate restructuring, mergers and acquisitions, and organizational changes in terms of their clients. Now, we see more and more law firms merging or changing their organizational structure. What advice do you have for lawyers given your own experience?
Build your network now – that’s where your next job is coming from. Keep it fresh. Stay in touch. Most of all: Help others in their job search just as you’d want to be helped should it be necessary. Yes, the Golden Networking Rule! When someone you “sort of know” asks for help, do you respond or do you “archive”? Are you on LinkedIn? Facebook? Twitter? Do you “stay in touch” often enough? Are you tracking job listings? Are you attending local ABA or ACC meetings? Are you writing for publication?
Your blog is called The Last Generalist. It’s a great read that I’d recommend for all of our readers to visit. What do you mean by “The Last Generalist?”
It’s a little bit of a joke to be honest. I go to bar or ACC functions and everyone is talking about their specialty and gathered in their specialist huddles and I’m sometimes on the outside looking in more often than I’d care to admit. My huddle often seems pretty darn small – me and my cup of coffee…
As an entrepreneur who handles everything herself, I know there are real benefits to being a generalist. In your opinion, what are the benefits to being a generalist rather than a specialist? How do you maintain your credentials as a generalist?
I think the benefits depend on the type of person you are. I enjoy variety and being a jack-of-all-trades. Not everyone does. I think in private practice, being a generalist is all but impossible inside a firm of any scale. But as a General Counsel, I think those generalist instincts are key to being able to manage a wide variety of legal issues and lawyers across the US and the globe. And maybe seeing the forest where your specialist can only see the trees. As for credentials, well, I think it involves reading a wide variety of periodicals and branching out in CLE courses. But most important is getting a wide exposure to different fields of law as you grow in your career. I probably had a different “specialty” every 12 months for the first 14 years of my career!
How did you decide to start a blog? Was this something recommended by your company?
The blog was a natural as I have always loved to write – I enjoy the creative outlet it provides. Also, I just felt like there was a story that wasn’t getting told much any more in the very tough business that the law has become – that being good at what you do is important but not at the cost of selling your soul or not having a life outside the law. In my view, courtesy, ethics and professionalism matter. The Last Generalist lets me speak to these things. My company tolerates my blog! I am very careful never to discuss my company or any legal matters or topics related to anything I’m handling – it’s my personal blog and I’m very careful to keep it that way.
How do you work it into your daily schedule?
I have to say I am not terribly disciplined in this respect but the flip side is that it doesn’t take that much time to keep the ball moving. I probably spend 30 to 45 minutes between getting up and bedtime on these activities. First thing in the AM is a great way to kick the day off – talking to the world with a cup of coffee. When I was at a recent PLI seminar I tweeted it live – and got feedback from lawyers in the UK when I posted something on UK law – it’s such a great tool!
What technology do you use on a day-to-day basis? E.g., phone apps, Skype, SaaS, any blogging tools
I’m a huge fan of Hootsuite. I can track numerous Twitter streams, LinkedIn and Facebook accounts all from one great platform. Can’t say enough good things about it. That plus my Droid gets me through the day.
In your position, are you in charge of hiring attorneys? If so, what are some of your favorite interview questions?
Well, I wish I could hire more! Seriously, for me, once we establish your credentials then it’s really about working together. I spend more time with my co-lawyers than anyone else in my life so I really, really want to be sure they are smart, funny and easy to work with! Oddly enough, if they are open and honest about failure, they tend to be the best people with whom to work. My favorite interview question is one that I picked up in the course of my various job searches: “Why do you think you lost the first lawsuit that you ever lost?”
I loved being asked and asking that question. Failure and how we learn and recover from it is so much more interesting than success. It’s our failures that shape us. If someone can talk about failure honestly and how they picked themselves up – that is way more interesting to me that the win. They tend to be more interesting people too!
I like that one. I may add it to my repertoire. Again, it was a pleasure speaking with you! Thank you very much again for your time!
On November 18, 2010, we hosted our fifth #LawJobChat, a chat on Twitter that usually takes place the last Thursday of each month from 9 – 10 pm Eastern. (November and December we switched up the schedule due to the holidays!)
During #LawJobChat #5, we spoke with Elizabeth (“Betsy”) Munnell (@BetsyMunnell), a former BigLaw partner and rainmaker who started Elizabeth Munnell & Associates, where she focuses on “business development training for law students and young lawyers.”
Betsy provided tips on how to curate the web, monitor practice areas or firms of interest, and build connections with the business intelligence you gather. Betsy can be reached on Twitter or LinkedIn.
5 Takeaway Tweets
I’d also recommend Amanda’s post that highlights the important points that Betsy covered.
Mark Your Calendars: #LawJobChat – January 27, 9-10 pm Eastern
Before I paste the full transcript, I’ll remind everyone that the next #LawJobChat will be at its normal date and time – the last Thursday of the month – from 9-10 pm EST. We’re finalizing the topic and guest host for next time but we’re also open to your suggestions and requests. You can leave a comment and/or send me an e-mail at melissa at recruiteresq dot com.
|2:00 am||aellislegal:||Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat|
|2:01 am||j2_whittington:||Time for #lawjobchat|
|2:01 am||j2_whittington:||RT @aellislegal: Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat|
|2:01 am||aellislegal:||You may already use online resources in your practice – we hope tonight’s info will share new resources #lawjobchat|
|2:02 am||LNLawSchool:||RT @aellislegal: Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat|
|2:02 am||aellislegal:||Our guest tonight is @betsymunnell, former BigLaw partner/rainmaker who now coaches attorneys. She knows A LOT abt online tools #lawjobchat|
|2:03 am||aellislegal:||I’ll let @betsymunnell share a little more about her background! #lawjobchat|
|2:03 am||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks so much Amanda for inviting me to take part in #LawJobChat. #lawjobchat|
|2:03 am||BetsyMunnell:||When I started a 2nd career (July ’10) I never imagined becoming a breathless fan of social media & online learning for lawyers! #lawjobchat|
|2:04 am||BetsyMunnell:||I certainly didn’t expect my new business to gain traction so quickly, in part due to my enthusiasm for Twitter & LinkedIN. #lawjobchat|
|2:04 am||aellislegal:||Oh, after @betsymunnell‘s intro, I’ll start w/some questions, labeling them Q1, Q2, etc. Feel free to jump in when u have ??s #lawjobchat|
|2:04 am||BetsyMunnell:||As a lawyer I totally underestimated the power of online platforms, but I caught up fast via strategic Twitter/LinkedIN follows #lawjobchat|
|2:05 am||BetsyMunnell:||Any JD or law student can enrich & advance his/her career by disciplined use of the web. We’ll make suggestions like these…. #lawjobchat|
|2:05 am||BetsyMunnell:||1. Use curated searches to identify an interesting, growth practice area (or vet a possible new law firm). #lawjobchat|
|2:05 am||BetsyMunnell:||2 Use Twitter links/JDSupra/RSS to deepen expertise on legal and business, targeted industries, to research prospects & more #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||LNLawSchool:||RT @betsymunnell: 1. Use curated searches to identify an interesting, growth practice area (or vet a possible new law firm). #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||mjsq:||RT @BetsyMunnell As lawyer I underestimated pwr of online platforms, but I caught up fast via strategic Twitter/LinkedIN follows #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||BetsyMunnell:||3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. And: 4. Learn how to deploy both to generate business. #lawjobchat|
|2:07 am||LNLawSchool:||RT @betsymunnell: 2 Use Twitter links/JDSupra/RSS to deepen expertise, to research prospects & more #lawjobchat|
|2:07 am||BetsyMunnell:||OK Amanda–I’m exhausted from that lengthy monologue–time for a question. #lawjobchat|
|2:07 am||LNLawSchool:||RT @betsymunnell: 3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. #lawjobchat|
|2:08 am||LNLawSchool:||And: 4. Learn how to deploy both to generate business. #lawjobchat|
|2:08 am||aellislegal:||Q1: Great! Let’s start with a basic: which websites do you check daily? Which 3 sites should JDs/students check daily? #lawjobchat|
|2:09 am||BetsyMunnell:||The web is huge–so we all need favorite a web filter: a search engine? an RSS feed like Google Reader? a Blawg ?Carnival? ? #lawjobchat|
|2:10 am||BetsyMunnell:||I recommend Twitter for news, LinkedIn and JDSupra for network status, industry info, and some combo of blogs #lawjobchat|
|2:11 am||j2_whittington:||RT @BetsyMunnell: I recommend Twitter for news, LinkedIn and JDSupra for network status, industry info, and some combo of blogs #lawjobchat|
|2:11 am||BetsyMunnell:||I am not a fan of Facebook for lawyers. And I see the web as primarily a news and data filter for practitioners. #lawjobchat|
|2:11 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell Facebook? #lawjobchat|
|2:12 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell: read my mind! #lawjobchat|
|2:12 am||BetsyMunnell:||The ethical and other difficulties of engaging fully on Twitter are challenging. Blogging can be tricky too. But.. #lawjobchat|
|2:13 am||BetsyMunnell:||Ultimately, with enough experience, many lawyers can benefit enormously from a blog presence–perhaps thru @lexblog #lawjobchat|
|2:13 am||aellislegal:||Q2: Let’s use a specific example – how would a health lawyer use web filters to gain updated info for that area/industry? #lawjobchat|
|2:14 am||BetsyMunnell:||Lawyers and students who want to consider blogging should follow @kevinokeefe–he has it all figured out. #lawjobchat|
|2:16 am||BetsyMunnell:||In my book Twitter is the zenith of Web filters…I use lists to follow the best subject curators. #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||aellislegal:||Q1 re blogging – I think @mjsq has some blogging info/basics on her site, too #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||BetsyMunnell:||The experts you follow must be reliable-so you need ?referrals? from seasoned lawyers, others. Ask them. Or… #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell do you use Twitter’s built-in list function or a tool like @formulists? #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||BetsyMunnell:||…raid their lists. In health care I like @HealthBlawg & the blog carnivals he favors. #lawjobchat|
|2:19 am||BetsyMunnell:||@mjsq I use @hootsuite and have set up a number of lists, including Best Content, News, Business News, Science, etc #lawjobchat|
|2:19 am||BetsyMunnell:||The best curators/lawyers cover industries ?holistically?–law, business, IT, policy, different types of clients #lawjobchat|
|2:20 am||aellislegal:||Q2 cont – So, find health care lawyers like @healthlawblawg and see who they follow #lawjobchat|
|2:20 am||BriHoffman:||not going to be able to participate in #lawjobchat tonight, but i look forward to the transcript! have fun, and hope ur all doing well!|
|2:21 am||BetsyMunnell:||@j2_whittington is a perfect example of blogging’s benefits & he’s gone viral–! #lawjobchat|
|2:21 am||mjsq:||Agree. RT BetsyMunnell ..best curators/lawyers cover industries ?holistically?-law, business, IT, policy, diff types of clients #lawjobchat|
|2:22 am||aellislegal:||Q2 cont – what about using Google alerts to learn about “health law”? Or Google alerts for health lawyers (if job searching)? #lawjobchat|
|2:23 am||BetsyMunnell:||One of the beauties of Twitter etc is the range of possible info-sharp lawyers understand the industries they serve #lawjobchat|
|2:24 am||BetsyMunnell:||I used Google Alerts for a while but was disappointed–the info from the sweeps comes in too slowly. So.. #lawjobchat|
|2:25 am||BetsyMunnell:||I now use Twitter searches and set them up in Hootsuite columns. If job searching you’re still after similar info #lawjobchat|
|2:26 am||BetsyMunnell:||You need to make your interviewer see the depth of your interest in/knowledge of the field and his/her company #lawjobchat|
|2:27 am||aellislegal:||Q2 cont For those that may not b familiar w/Twitter searches, do u mean a “saved search” for “health law”? Any special steps? #lawjobchat|
|2:27 am||BetsyMunnell:||so you need to be way out in front of current developments at that company –such as regulatory changes, litigation #lawjobchat|
|2:28 am||BetsyMunnell:||I’d have to check this again–I can’t recall how I set up the three I have Amanda–but it was easy–maybe a new tab? #lawjobchat|
|2:29 am||BetsyMunnell:||Other ways to track legal fields, industries, companies, prospects: RSS feeders-but you need patience/discipline #lawjobchat|
|2:30 am||aellislegal:||Q3 Time mgmt is huge issue for lawyers – how often do u have to check the search results? #lawjobchat|
|2:30 am||j2_whittington:||@HammieHamHam check out #lawjobchat – pretty good info from some really good ppl about getting your name out there – never 2 early 2 start|
|2:31 am||LNLawSchool:||@betsymunnell In Hootsuite, it’s as easy as setting up a new “stream” with a search term. Very important, imo. #lawjobchat|
|2:32 am||BetsyMunnell:||Q3 Good question. The net itself can be an enormous distraction/timewaster. Especially if you enjoy the people. #lawjobchat|
|2:32 am||squirrelpants:||@BetsyMunnell What is the benefit to hootsuite over tweetdeck or Twitter? #lawjobchat|
|2:33 am||BetsyMunnell:||The search results in Hootsuite show up alongside al the other lists/streams and are easy to check. #lawjobchat|
|2:33 am||BetsyMunnell:||How often to check–well that depends on where you are in your networking/biz development strategy: #lawjobchat|
|2:34 am||aellislegal:||Q4: Do you find LinkedIn groups helpful for gaining info about practice areas/industries? If so, any examples? #lawjobchat|
|2:34 am||BetsyMunnell:||If you have some material relationships developing then you want to be watching subjects of interest to them. #lawjobchat|
|2:34 am||BetsyMunnell:||When you see something break, you want to be the first to send along the linkl–making yourself valuable/memorable. #lawjobchat|
|2:35 am||BetsyMunnell:||@squirrelpants First, that’s one hell of a great handle. Second–I don’t know anything about tweetdeck, but #lawjobchat|
|2:36 am||BetsyMunnell:||twitter alone just doesn’t give me much flexibility–and is way too disorderly for my brain. #lawjobchat|
|2:37 am||BetsyMunnell:||Q4 I think LinkedIN is a tremendous resource for information when used strategically. Alumni groups can be great. #lawjobchat|
|2:37 am||j2_whittington:||@BetsyMunnell but don’t you need to be careful and read what you’re RTing first tho? jrnalists have taken big hits b/c of this #lawjobchat|
|2:37 am||BetsyMunnell:||You have to check things out, watch to see who is active, wheter the content is intelligent and helpful, etc #lawjobchat|
|2:39 am||BetsyMunnell:||My favorite thing about LInkedIn is its partnership with JDSupra–the premium account even send you posts based on #lawjobchat|
|2:40 am||aellislegal:||Re watching subjects of interest, job seekers: use searches 2 find articles in desired pract area, send to atty w/whom u intvwd #lawjobchat|
|2:40 am||BetsyMunnell:||..sorry–more on @JD Supra- I have found some wonderful substance thru this vehicle. #lawjobchat|
|2:40 am||mjsq:||I wondered about the premium account… what are the benefits? Would you recommend for all lawyers to upgrade their @LinkedIn? #lawjobchat|
|2:41 am||BetsyMunnell:||Jack- yes lots of people RT links based solely on the tweeter’s intro or the title of the post itself. Lazy. Risky. #lawjobchat|
|2:41 am||aellislegal:||Q4 cont – Using the health lawyer ex .. health lawyer could subscribe 2 health law feeds on JD Supra to gain info re health law? #lawjobchat|
|2:41 am||BaranCLE:||Good Q. Many don’t RT @j2_whittington @BetsyMunnell but don’t you need to be careful and read what you’re RTi #lawjobchat|
|2:42 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell Also, I wondered if premium @LinkedIn accts should be benefit firms offer so that their emplys can learn. Opinion? #lawjobchat|
|2:43 am||BetsyMunnell:||@mjsq I don’t recommend an upgrade ($) unless you’re following a specific, hot topic well vetted on @JDSupra. #lawjobchat|
|2:45 am||BetsyMunnell:||@mjsq Firms should help lawyers access online info, but I don’t think JDSupra has yet proven value of premium. #lawjobchat|
|2:46 am||aellislegal:||Q4 cont Still using health lawyer ex … any specific groups for health lawyers to join on LinkedIn? Search groups for keywords? #lawjobchat|
|2:46 am||BetsyMunnell:||@aellislegal – there are a number of large firms that post routinely on JDSupra-some fields are better than others #lawjobchat|
|2:47 am||BetsyMunnell:||As an example, my old firm’s Insurance/Reinsurance practice regularly tweets/posts on LInkedIN/JDSupra #lawjobchat|
|2:48 am||BetsyMunnell:||I understand that the insurance posts are carefully followed in the industry #lawjobchat|
|2:49 am||BaranCLE:||RT @aellislegal Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat|
|2:50 am||aellislegal:||Q5: You’ve shared tips re Twitter searches, JDSupra, RSS feeds. Any examples of lawyers using these to learn abt pract areas? #lawjobchat|
|2:51 am||cyclaw:||Interesting discussion going on at #lawjobchat. Great info for a work-in-progress solo like me..|
|2:51 am||BetsyMunnell:||Q4 Keywords for health care? Healthcare reform. FraudAbuse. Conflict of Interest..That sort of thing. #lawjobchat|
|2:52 am||BetsyMunnell:||Q5 Yes–to preface my answer..The end goal for all of this-of course-is a self-sustaining law practice. #lawjobchat|
|2:54 am||BetsyMunnell:||A smart, strategic web curator’s strategy must help you build relationships…to develop your reputation/network. #lawjobchat|
|2:54 am||BetsyMunnell:||One of my clients-a small firm 4th year- wants to develop a peer referral source in a big firm. #lawjobchat|
|2:55 am||j2_whittington:||For those of u solos out there lking for help I would recommend @SCartierLiebel -Solo Practice University- Great tool for solos #lawjobchat|
|2:55 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? How do they turn it into competitive intelligence? #lawjobchat|
|2:56 am||BetsyMunnell:||The Biglaw hotshot he’s targeted is in cleantech, biofuels–stuff like that. She’s expected to blog weekly. #lawjobchat|
|2:56 am||mjsq:||*how does one turn it into competitive intelligence. #lawjobchat|
|2:56 am||aellislegal:||@betsymunnell Thoughts re evernote? RT @bcuban can evernote benefit attorneys? #lawjobchat|
|2:56 am||BetsyMunnell:||And of course she is anxious about proving herself in a firm where only 15% of the equity partners are women. #lawjobchat|
|2:57 am||aellislegal:||Good Q RT @mjsq: @BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? #lawjobchat|
|2:57 am||maggieesq:||RT @BetsyMunnell: Jack- yes lots of people RT links based solely on the tweeter’s intro or the title of the post itself. Lazy. Risky. #lawjobchat|
|2:58 am||BetsyMunnell:||My guy set a twitter search & read the NYT Green Blog daily. One fine day he spotted a breaking post, sent it 2 her #lawjobchat|
|2:59 am||BetsyMunnell:||His BigLaw contact, thrilled, sent it to the partner she works for, who was grateful & impressed. #lawjobchat|
|2:59 am||BetsyMunnell:||Same goes for the associate…who matured into a solid referral source overnight.. #lawjobchat|
|2:59 am||aellislegal:||@j2_whittington Great point re @SCartierLiebel‘s SPU as online tool for solos … can take classes for diff practice areas #lawjobchat|
|3:00 am||BetsyMunnell:||Moral: Watch for breaking news, for data that will help someone else shine. Send it immediately. #lawjobchat|
|3:00 am||BetsyMunnell:||That’s how you build a practice. #lawjobchat|
|3:01 am||BetsyMunnell:||@SCartierLiebel‘s SPU is a wonderful resource–as are a number of other platforms/blogs etc @myshingle for example #lawjobchat|
|3:01 am||aellislegal:||Final Q – we’ve talked about lawyers using these tools -what about firms? How are they using online tools to reach/help clients? #lawjobchat|
|3:02 am||BetsyMunnell:||Last Q Several savvy large firms are offering free online documents and support (“document generators”) online. #lawjobchat|
|3:03 am||aellislegal:||Good Q RT @mjsq: @BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? #lawjobchat|
|3:03 am||BetsyMunnell:||These target startups and venture capitalists and are brilliant marketing tools. #lawjobchat|
|3:04 am||BetsyMunnell:||Wilson Sonsini put out a term sheet generator for entrepreneurs in ’09. #lawjobchat|
|3:05 am||BetsyMunnell:||But law firms have always offered fre/discounted assistance at that level–I know I did. It’s good business. #lawjobchat|
|3:06 am||BetsyMunnell:||The real cutting edge stuff is coming from Goodwin Procter via @GoodwinBigIdeas & the new “Founder’s Workbench”. #lawjobchat|
|3:06 am||aellislegal:||@betsymunnell you’ve provided some great insight re using searches, RSS, JDSupra, LI Groups to learn abt pract areas .. #lawjobchat|
|3:06 am||aellislegal:||@betsymunnell you’ve provided some great insight re using searches, RSS, JDSupra, LI Groups to learn abt pract areas .. #lawjobchat|
|3:07 am||BetsyMunnell:||Very useful documents and tremendous support on many levels–tax, regulatory etc. Great marketing. #lawjobchat|
|3:07 am||aellislegal:||@betsymunnell and great insight re firms’ use of online tools. THANK YOU for joining us to share your knowledge! #lawjobchat|
|3:07 am||BetsyMunnell:||The thing I love about Goodwin’s site is that it benefits the profession at large, and law students too. #lawjobchat|
|3:08 am||BetsyMunnell:||It?s way better than PLI/CLE, and free. #lawjobchat|
|3:08 am||BetsyMunnell:||This way BigLaw can help train lawyers in practical skills as well as specialized substance–law schools doesn’t! #lawjobchat|
|3:09 am||mjsq:||RT @BetsyMunnell …real cutting edge stuff is coming from Goodwin Procter via @GoodwinBigIdeas & the new “Founder’s Workbench” #lawjobchat|
|3:09 am||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks Amanda – my pleasure. I appreciate being included and welcome questions offline from anyone I missed! #lawjobchat|
|3:10 am||j2_whittington:||Do you guys have a #lawjobchat group on LinkedIn?|
|3:10 am||BetsyMunnell:||Well Jack we will soon! #lawjobchat|
|3:11 am||LNLawSchool:||Many thanks @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal and others for a great #lawjobchat! #Lawschool students, search on the hashtag to read the script.|
|3:11 am||aellislegal:||As always, I’ll post a summary and chat transcript tomorrow #lawjobchat|
|3:11 am||mjsq:||@BetsyMunnell Thank you so much for joining us! I know we could’ve talked for hours about this stuff… #lawjobchat|
|3:12 am||LNLawSchool:||Great idea, Jack! RT @j2_whittington: Do you guys have a #lawjobchat group on LinkedIn?|
|3:13 am||mjsq:||We will! RT @LNLawSchool Great idea, Jack! RT @j2_whittington: Do you guys have a #lawjobchatgroup on LinkedIn? #lawjobchat|
|3:13 am||BetsyMunnell:||@mjsq Thanks Melissa- I really enjoyed this–my first experience with a real time online discussion. #lawjobchat|
|3:14 am||LNLawSchool:||RT @betsymunnell: Well Jack we will soon! #lawjobchat (re:#lawjobchat Linkedin group)|
|3:18 am||BetsyMunnell:||I need to add one thing I wanted to cover– the web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat|
|3:20 am||BetsyMunnell:||@lancegodard?s @22twts & @cordellparvin?s podcasts give you useful access to lawyers in your field #lawjobchat|
|3:21 am||BetsyMunnell:||Tip: Be sure to follow marquis blogs (WSJ, NYT etc). Blogs rarely ?break? news, but offer good, quotable analysis. #lawjobchat|
|3:22 am||BetsyMunnell:||Finally–be watching for growth practice areas–health care and “green” especially. But also China and #KM. #lawjobchat|
|3:24 am||BetsyMunnell:||For China, I like @DanHarris, among others. Knowledge management is fascinating–a trending field. #lawjobchat|
|3:25 am||BetsyMunnell:||#KM is at the intersection of law, project management, IT…and its key to the future of the profession. #lawjobchat|
|3:25 am||BetsyMunnell:||I’m learning about #KM via @greglambert @LawyerKM & a bunch of very scary smart law librarian tweeps. #lawjobchat|
|3:26 am||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks to all those who participated. Made my day. #lawjobchat|
|3:34 am||mjsq:||Agree. Req reading: Bill Gates. RT @BetsyMunnell #KM = intersection of law, proj mgement, IT..& it’s key to future of profession #lawjobchat|
|3:34 am||j2_whittington:||Alright #lawjobchat was very informative – but now its back to this appellate brief – til’ the night closes in bow-bow-bow #lawschool|
|3:50 am||lancegodard:||@BetsyMunnell Thanks, Betsy, for including @22Twts in your excellent #lawjobchat! Lots of useful info.|
|4:22 am||aellislegal:||@v9n You can thank @betsymunnell (follow her if you aren’t already)! She mentioned @HealthBlawg on #LawJobChat tonight|
|4:22 am||steveMwade:||So true.. RT@BetsyMunnell: the web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat|
|9:14 am||mijori23:||RT @j2_whittington: #lawschool students keep in mind #lawjobchat is tonight beginning at 9 EST – see you there – LOTS of invaluable advice from GREAT ppl|
|9:17 am||mijori23:||RT @LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: 3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. #lawjobchat|
|11:24 am||keyvanrastegar:||RT @BetsyMunnell: Tip: Be sure to follow marquis blogs (WSJ, NYT etc). Blogs rarely ?break? news, but offer good, quotable analysis. #lawjobchat|
|12:55 pm||healthblawg:||Thx 4 mention > @aellislegal @betsymunnell #lawjobchat|
|9:33 pm||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks for the RT! @stevemwade: So true. RT@BetsyMunnell-The web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat|
|9:35 pm||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks for the RT! RT @mjsq: Agree. Req reading: Bill Gates. RT @BetsyMunnell #KM is key to future of profession #lawjobchat|
|9:35 pm||BetsyMunnell:||@lnlawschool Thanks for participating in #lawjobchat!!!|
|9:36 pm||BetsyMunnell:||@lawyercoach Thanks for mentioning our #lawjobchat!|
|9:36 pm||associatesmind:||@BetsyMunnell I didn’t get to participate in #lawjobchat but I read over it this morning. Good stuff. Going to try and make the next one.|
|9:37 pm||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks for the mention! RT @barancle: Good Q. Many don’t RT @j2_whittington @BetsyMunnell …be careful and read what you’re RTi #lawjobchat|
|9:39 pm||BetsyMunnell:||Thanks! It was fun! RT @associatesmind:… didn’t get to participate in #lawjobchat…… Good stuff. Going to try and make the next one.|
|9:41 pm||BetsyMunnell:||My pleasure!!! I love your site. RT @carolynelefant: @BetsyMunnell thank you for mention of myshingle as solo resource at #lawjobchat|
In this new series, we are profiling legal professionals and J.D.s and asking them the hard questions that don’t always get answered in law school. For example, how did they find their job? What do they do on a day-to-day basis? And, was law school a worthwhile investment?
Megan M. McKeon worked her way through the evening J.D. program at The John Marshall School of Law and graduated in 2004. By day, she worked as a Marketing Magician for Schiff Hardin, an Am Law 200 firm, where she assisted with the firms marketing and recruiting efforts, including handling media relations, drafting external and internal communications, and promoting firm-hosted events. Rather than use her law degree to practice law on a daily basis, Megan continued to work in the marketing department of law firms. Eventually, Megan returned to school and achieved her M.B.A. in Marketing Management and Leadership and Change Management from DePaul University’s Charles H. Kellstadt Graduate School of Business. Today, she applies her legal and business background as Marketing Director for McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff.
RecruiterEsq: Hi Megan. Thanks for responding to my request on Twitter.
Thank you so much for the opportunity to share my story!
You have an interesting background. How did you decide to go to law school?
I always wanted to be a lawyer, or so my mom tells me. I don’t really remember, but apparently at the tender age of five, I told my parents I was going to be an attorney. In those words! That said, I let the dream fade quite a bit – in college, I focused on a business education and had set my eyes on work in finance and/or marketing. But, when a friend told me she was taking the LSAT, and I checked out her study materials, the interest was rekindled. I honestly took the LSAT on a bit of a lark – I didn’t study much the first time around – but I scored quite well, and thought that if I studied I might get an excellent score. I was lucky.
That’s a cute story. I am fascinated by people who can work full-time and go to law school. How was your experience as a night student different?
Honestly, that’s a bit hard to answer. Schiff Hardin was a very flexible workplace and they fully embraced my legal education as a benefit not only to me but to the marketing department and a firm. While I was officially enrolled in the evening program, I took a good share of daytime classes, often coming in early or staying late at work and taking a lunch hour to attend class. So, I didn’t have the true evening student experience. That said, it’s a challenge working and attending school – I’ve done it twice (for my MBA as well), but I relish the challenge of juggling multiple commitments.
Were there any courses on legal marketing or anything like that in law school?
Sadly, no. I have a good friend who teaches an optional course on legal marketing at Chicago-Kent, but John Marshall didn’t offer anything of the sort. I’ve been lobbying them, through their Alumni Association, to offer a seminar – or anything – on the topic. I’d love to be involved in that type of course.
As a professional, do you think there should be those types of courses offered?
Absolutely. They’re essential, whether you’re at an AmLaw 100 firm or you’ve hung out your own shingle. Marketing is more than just sales or advertising. It’s about developing relationships. You need to know how to talk to clients, how to understand their problems on their terms. Marketing helps all of that.
I always joke about how I never heard of an Am Law firm until I started recruiting. When I brought up the term to friends who worked at Am Law firms, they told me it was recruiting jargon. That’s one indication that legal education doesn’t prepare you for the day-to-day business realities of practicing law. If a law school taught courses on marketing, what do you think should be on the curriculum? What are some books or articles or magazines that helped you along the way?
I’d actually like to see two separate classes – one targeted to law students intending to practice in solo/small firms and the other to those looking for work in larger firms. The basics remain the same for both, but much of the practicality and the nuances are a bit different.
For the solo/small firm class, I’d focus on communication skills, business development basics, and marketing on a shoestring. The course needs to be a bit broader for these folks, as they will be doing everything themselves.
For the larger firm class, I’d focus primarily on project management, business development, and general client relationship skills. I’d stay away from the marketing basics, as a firm of any substantial size will have personnel to handle that work.
Much of my “education” on the topic has been a baptism by fire. I do recommend The Law Firm Associate’s Guide to Personal Marketing and Selling Skills by Beth Cuzzone and Catherine Alman MacDonagh. Dale Carnegie’s classic, How To Win Friends and Influence People, is always applicable and is a fast and very worthy read.
Did you ever think you wanted to practice law?
Absolutely. I have a keen interest in appellate practice, and I still consider practicing. I maintain my license, and therefore I attend the MCLE classes; I choose classes that are either marketing or appellate practice related. I also occasionally select patent law classes, as my firm’s focus is on intellectual property law.
Do you assist clients now or focus solely on marketing?
While I do have some interaction with clients on a limited basis, my focus is solely on marketing and business development for the firm. I will often interact with clients at events, trade shows, etc., and am certainly well-prepared to talk with them about our firm’s selling points as well as legal developments and potential implications. I keep up on IP news and developments and, as an attorney, I can speak of those developments on a different level than others may. I think my firm has seen a benefit from my J.D.
How do marketing and business development differ? Give me an example of an activity you consider marketing that’s not business development or vice versa?
Business development generally involves direct face-to-face interaction with a client, while marketing is the collateral side of that. They certainly combine together in many situations – for instance, while engaging in a business development activity such as hosting a conference, an attorney may hand out a marketing brochure. The two disciplines support and build off each other.
What’s a typical day like for you? A typical week?
It depends on the time of year, and it’s much easier to answer the “typical week” question. Right now, a typical week is spent spot-coaching our attorneys on individual business development activities – answering questions such as, “What do I do when…” or “What’s the best way to follow up with…”. Since it’s close to the holidays, I’ve been providing advice on holiday gifts, cards, and so on. We’re launching a new Website in Q2 2011, and I’m working heavily on that, coordinating needs from different departments and practices, and surveying all of our attorneys and staff on their preferences. It’s a really neat project and I cannot wait for our site to launch. This time of year, I also spend a good amount of time tracking down various vendors and ensuring that deadlines will be met, that we can get invoices before we close out our year, confirming pricing for 2011, and such. It’s a little slower at this time of year – not so many events on the immediate horizon. When we’re in events season, it’s long hours (well worth it) with a moderate amount of travel, while juggling a dozen projects or so.
As I mentioned, we connected on Twitter. What social networking sites do you use on a regular basis?
Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn are my favorites. I use Twitter and LinkedIn professionally, and Facebook personally.
What is your firm’s stance regarding social networking? Does the firm recommend for lawyers to use any specific sites? Does the firm prohibit any sites?
We do not have a social media policy at my firm. Not because we don’t think that social media is important – quite the opposite – but because we, culturally, have not been a policy-motivated firm. We encourage our attorneys to use their best judgment in all forms of social media, and I offer occasional training on the different sites. A group of our partners runs Patent Docs, a widely-read pharmaceutical and biotech patent law blog. Another partner authors the Orange Book Blog, a blog centered on FDA law. Dennis Crouch, a former associate at MBHB, developed Patently-O, the most widely-read patent law weblog, while he was at our firm. We continue to proudly support Patently O as the exclusive sponsor of the blog. So, you can see that we very much embrace social media.
Do you train lawyers on how to use social networking sites? E.g., proper conduct, how to make connections…. If so, what are one or two takeaway points from your training sessions?
Yes, I run training sessions for our attorneys, primarily on Twitter and LinkedIn.
Some of my favorite points:
- Social media is a conversation. It’s give and take. You have to listen more than you talk.
- Use LinkedIn and Twitter for competitive and client research. Hit up the standbys, but always check out those two sites to see what’s being said about the company/firm.
- LinkedIn Groups are underutilized, in my opinion. Pick a few groups that cover your area of interest, and join them. Listen to the conversation and participate if appropriate. Some groups will end up being service providers promoting themselves, but others have valuable discussions with industry stakeholders.
- Use social media to humanize yourself. It’s OK to post pictures of your children, talk about your volunteer work, and share your interest in competitive extreme ironing. While there’s always a line – and you must remain sensitive to that – have fun and enjoy the experience. That’s the only way you’ll come back.
You have your law degree and your MBA. Do you think one degree or the other helps you in your position? Or is it the combination?
Both degrees are helpful, I believe. I started on my MBA in late 2008 and finally got it earlier this year. I did have a BBA, so I already had a lot of the business education that’s attendant to an MBA. I found the connections and the communication skills I learned through the MBA program were more invaluable than the actual classes themselves. As for the JD, I don’t think I would have gotten this job without it, frankly. I was 25 when I was hired here, and I don’t think anyone would have taken that risk on me without knowing that I had the level of sophistication that a JD brings. It puts me on more equal footing with the partners, and allows me to speak to them on their terms.
For lawyers who want to transition to a marketing role within their firm or law students who want to find a law firm marketing position, what type of advice do you have for them? What should they be prepared to do that they may not like? What skills will they have to learn or re-learn that were not part of the law school curriculum?
Learn everything you can about marketing and business development. If you’ve already got a degree in marketing, you’re ahead of the game, but I don’t know that it’s mandatory. Start thinking from the mindset of the client. Who are you marketing to? Why would they want to work with your firm over another? How can you communicate that to them?
I really like every part of my job. Dealing with politics – and they exist everywhere – is probably my least favorite part, but it’s always educational and I come out of the situation knowing so much more about the personalities I deal with every day. I think one of the things I love best about my firm is that we’re mid-sized. That means I know every attorney, and I know most of them very well. I know their quirks (who needs extra reminders, who can I count on to talk to the media, who doesn’t get in until 10:00, and so on).
Marketing and business development are not part of the law school curriculum at most law schools. So, all of those skills will need to be discovered and learned. Luckily, the legal marketing community is very helpful. The Legal Marketing Association, of which I am an active member, has chapters in many metropolitan areas, and meets on a regular basis. The LMA Listserv is an invaluable resource for those new to the field, and members of LMA are friendly, helpful, and accessible.
What tools do you use on a daily basis? E.g., type of cell phone, computer, phone apps, SaaS
I wish I could say I use some cool exotic tools, but I really don’t. I have a Dell Latitude E6410, running Windows XP, with Office 2010. I use Adobe Creative Suite for most of my ad designs. My mobile phone is an iPhone 3GS that will soon be upgraded to either the iPhone 4 or the Droid X (still considering my options).
How has legal marketing changed since you started in 2002? How do you think it will change in the next five (5) or ten (10) years?
I’ve seen legal marketing evolve towards a focus on client relationships. I’m very much excited to see how the field will shape up in the future – I see marketing becoming even more essential to firms as attorneys realize the importance of client relationships and client development. I look forward to a time when legal marketing isn’t initially equated to phone book covers and low-production-value television ads!
Megan, thank you very much for telling our readers about what you do for a living.
Thank you for the opportunity.
Megan M. McKeon is Marketing Director at McDonnell Boehnen Hulbert & Berghoff, an intellectual property boutique with offices in Chicago and Washington State. You can connect with Megan on Twitter or LinkedIn.
On Thursday, December 16, 2010, we hosted our sixth #LawJobChat. Six months. Wow. That’s pretty awesome. I’ll write a separate post about this but it’s so awesome that at the end of November we decided to start a #LawJobChat LinkedIn group that you should join!
This particular #LawJobChat was pretty awesome too.
Topic: CLE + Your Career with @BaranCLE + @LawLine
5 Takeaway Tweets
*Fine, 6 takeaway tweets
Next #LawJobChat: January 27th, 9-10 pm Eastern
Before I paste the full transcript, I’ll remind everyone that #LawJobChat #7 will take place on January 27th, 2011(!!) from 9-10 pm Eastern.
We’re finalizing the topic and guest host for next time but we’re also open to your suggestions and requests. You can leave a comment and/or send me an e-mail at melissa at recruiteresq dot com.
|2:00 am||aellislegal:||Welcome to #LawJobChat! Our topic tonight is CLE & your career. 1st part of discussion will be about jobs avail in CLE #lawjobchat|
|2:00 am||Lawline:||Ditto RT @BaranCLE Plz excuse. Back to regularly scheduled tweets in an hour RT @mjsq#LawJobChat soon w/ @LawLine & @BaranCLE.|
|2:00 am||aellislegal:||We’ll also talk about advancing your career with CLE – both the skills that help you and the visibility of speaking at CLEs #lawjobchat|
|2:01 am||BaranCLE:||Honored. Hey, love the new @lawline avatar #LawJobChat|
|2:02 am||aellislegal:||We have 2 CLE experts as our guest co-hosts – @barancle and @lawline. I’ll let these 2 experts introduce themselves #lawjobchat|
|2:02 am||mjsq:||Btw, I love @BaranCLE‘s job board. Not only CLE jobs. Great resource. http://www.barancle.com/cle-jobs/ #LawJobChat|
|2:02 am||Lawline:||Honored as well! Changing up the picture just for the night #LawJobChat|
|2:02 am||aellislegal:||@barancle @lawline tell us your backgrounds, current roles. Then, I’ll start with questions (will try to # the questions) #lawjobchat|
|2:03 am||BaranCLE:||My name is Tim and I’m a Twitter addict. I’m also a CLE entrepreneur #LawJobChat|
|2:04 am||BaranCLE:||my entrepreneurial venture is BaranCLE which offers CLE accreditation services and serves as a hub for info and community #LawJobChat|
|2:04 am||Lawline:||Jeff here. Been working with @lawline for past year in accreditation and many other areas. #lawjobchat|
|2:05 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE @lawline can you elaborate a bit about “accreditation services” for participants unfamiliar with the process? #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||Lawline:||Company has been producing online CLE for past 11 years online. Many new cutting edge products on the way as well! #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE @lawline Also, did you work in CLE before obtaining your present roles? #lawjobchat|
|2:06 am||BaranCLE:||for a course to be CLE accredited, the provider must apply in each state. We help you through that process #LawJobChat|
|2:07 am||BaranCLE:||45 of the 50 states have a mandatory CLE requirement #LawJobChat|
|2:08 am||BaranCLE:||Yes, I was the director of CLE and library at NYC law firm for a decade. I’m getting up there in age #LawJobChat|
|2:08 am||fredabramson:||RT @BaranCLE: my entrepreneurial venture is BaranCLE which offers CLE accreditation services and serves as a hub for info and community #LawJobChat|
|2:09 am||Lawline:||Its many papers to fill out! To stay on top of them all is a job in itself. Always have to keep in mind state specifics #lawjobchat|
|2:09 am||aellislegal:||Q1: what kinds of jobs/roles are available for JDs in the CLE field? #lawjobchat|
|2:10 am||BaranCLE:||CLE jobs range from clerical to those requiring a law degree #LawJobChat|
|2:10 am||Lawline:||JDs work with us to create programs with our faculty. Their perspective allows them to work hands on and develop great content. #lawjobchat|
|2:10 am||BaranCLE:||To answer your Q: CLE jobs for JDs include executive positions at bar associations – lots of bar assns out there #LawJobChat|
|2:11 am||DavidCohenEsq:||@BaranCLE I’m surprised all 50 don’t require it. Even if it isn’t required by state, it’s important to keep learning. #LawJobChat|
|2:11 am||BaranCLE:||State and federal agencies also a source for #CLE jobs like the courts and related admin offices #LawJobChat|
|2:12 am||aellislegal:||@DavidCohenEsq @BaranCLE And, in some states that don’t require it, you still need CLE for malpractice insurance! #lawjobchat|
|2:12 am||Lawline:||@DavidCohenEsq It’s getting close. With NJ coming over and MD close to it. #lawjobchat|
|2:13 am||BaranCLE:||@DavidCohenEsq yeah, me too. But there is a significant voice of attorneys that oppose mandatory CLE in ANY state #LawJobChat|
|2:13 am||BaranCLE:||but that mandatory vs not is a huge can of worms, probably not suited for this discussion #LawJobChat|
|2:13 am||mjsq:||And, @BaranCLE, you mentioned you were Director of CLE in a law firm so there are those jobs as well. #LawJobChat|
|2:14 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE And, what about firms? you mentioned you were dir of CLE at a firm, so opportunities there? #lawjobchat|
|2:14 am||mjsq:||@aellislegal @BaranCLE haha, great minds think alike #LawJobChat|
|2:14 am||aellislegal:||@mjsq @BaranCLE great minds think alike look at our last tweets! #lawjobchat|
|2:15 am||BaranCLE:||Yes, you’ll find many opps in law firms, though directors or coordinators tend to have other responsibilities #LawJobChat|
|2:15 am||aellislegal:||@barancle @lawline what about CLE providers like @lawline? What kinds of roles do JDs hold in CLE providers? #lawjobchat|
|2:16 am||BaranCLE:||In law firms CLE positions are usually part of the library, marketing or prof dev departments #LawJobChat|
|2:16 am||Lawline:||Creating programs and facilitating programs. #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||Lawline:||In NY, for example, a non-attorney course can be accredited, if the program is facilitated by a lawyer #lawjobchat|
|2:17 am||aellislegal:||Q2: any special skill set needed for JDs to work in CLE role in bar association, firm, provider, or state agency? #lawjobchat|
|2:18 am||Lawline:||Many great minds outside the legal community for great content, we leverage this using program attorneys to facilitate #lawjobchat|
|2:18 am||aellislegal:||Q2(cont) do JDs need to practice 1st before transitioning to role of working in CLE (at provider, bar association, state agency) #lawjobchat|
|2:19 am||BaranCLE:||As in many industries today, it’s becoming increasingly important for CLE positions to include social media skills #LawJobChat|
|2:19 am||aellislegal:||Interesting RT @Lawline: In NY, for example, a non-attorney course can be accredited, if the program is facilitated by a lawyer #lawjobchat|
|2:20 am||DavidCohenEsq:||@BaranCLE I see that combo. Firms often hold MCLE for in house counsel on their own or through bar group. Good way to network. #LawJobChat|
|2:20 am||BaranCLE:||JDs don’t need to practice before entering the CLE profession, but it helps to have an understanding of how law firm life works #LawJobChat|
|2:20 am||mjsq:||Nice! RT @BaranCLE As in many industries today, it’s becoming ++ important for CLE positions to include social media skills #LawJobChat|
|2:20 am||lisasolomon:||The NY rule requiring an atty on every program is completely boneheaded. But I suppose that’s another discussion for another day #lawjobchat|
|2:20 am||Lawline:||Q2: It doesnt hurt to have experience. And as @BaraCLE said, social media skill is an effective tool #lawjobchat|
|2:21 am||Lawline:||@lisasolomon Well said! #lawjobchat|
|2:21 am||BaranCLE:||@lisasolomon Lisa, that NY #MCLE rule is one of tons of boneheaded rules around the country! #LawJobChat|
|2:21 am||mjsq:||@lisasolomon (same w/ rules about social media courses….) #LawJobChat|
|2:22 am||aellislegal:||Q3: where can JDs find job postings/openings for CLE positions? @barancle, tell us about your job board and what it covers? #lawjobchat|
|2:22 am||BaranCLE:||@DavidCohenEsq yes, law firms and in-house depts offering CLE is a great way to network and provides vital service to clients #LawJobChat|
|2:22 am||Lawline:||Q2: its a 2-way road. Young JDs develop great experience facilitating and developing CLE courses. An intro to the community #lawjobchat|
|2:23 am||mjsq:||re Q2: @Lawline, do the JDs contact you & say they want to help develop CLE course or how does that work? #LawJobChat|
|2:23 am||FrankFurbacher:||RT @BaranCLE: 45 of the 50 states have a mandatory CLE requirement #LawJobChat|
|2:23 am||BaranCLE:||@mjsq yes, that “bonehead” comment applies to many #MCLE rules including marketing and social media accreditation #LawJobChat|
|2:25 am||BaranCLE:||CLE jobs boards are rare, which is why I created the listing at barancle.com. #ACLEA is another good source. #LawJobChat|
|2:26 am||BaranCLE:||Jobs listed at barancle found via web search, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and relationships formed on those platforms. #LawJobChat|
|2:26 am||DavidCohenEsq:||@Lawline The public speaking skill development is huge too. Especially for young litigators who need to speak in front of jury. #LawJobChat|
|2:26 am||Lawline:||@mjsq re Q2: We post openings for program attorneys, seek applications, etc. seel those with a passion for learning #lawjobchat.|
|2:26 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE What is #ACLEA for participants who may not be familiar? Do you have link to your job board? #lawjobchat|
|2:27 am||BaranCLE:||Places to look for jobs include: CLE providers, Bar Associations, Law Firms, any entity that offers accredited CLE courses #LawJobChat|
|2:28 am||Lawline:||@DavidCohenEsq Re speaking: Absolutely! It is a great skill to develop early in the career. CLE is an ideal way to develop it. #lawjobchat|
|2:28 am||BaranCLE:||Yes, here’s the link to jobs board http://www.barancle.com/cle-jobs/ #LawJobChat|
|2:28 am||mjsq:||@BaranCLE & @LawLine: re: @DavidCohenEsq‘s pts about networking & public development, how has online CLE changed those aspects? #LawJobChat|
|2:29 am||BaranCLE:||@DavidCohenEsq really good point, David. Presenting at CLE events improves public speaking and also provides networking opps #LawJobChat|
|2:29 am||mjsq:||Is there still potential for networking & public speaking* development with online CLE? #LawJobChat|
|2:30 am||aellislegal:||Q4 @DavidCohenEsq tweeted re importance of public speaking as critical skill for young litigators speaking in front of jury #lawjobchat|
|2:30 am||aellislegal:||Q4 cont How can young lawyers speak at CLEs? Do they have to be asked or can they volunteer? #lawjobchat|
|2:30 am||BaranCLE:||@aellislegal aclea.org is the Association for CLE, a GREAT resource for establishing connections and building relationships #LawJobChat|
|2:31 am||Lawline:||@mjsq look at what has developed on Twitter! those with the bug to engage, CLE can serve as a platform, even online #lawjobchat|
|2:31 am||BaranCLE:||Good Q, Amanda. There’s a kind of line that speakers follow from offering their services to becoming “known”, then charging #LawJobChat|
|2:32 am||Lawline:||@mjsq re networking: The potential to be seen by a larger audience opens up as well. #lawjobchat|
|2:32 am||BaranCLE:||@aellislegal young lawyers should reach out to providers and offer to speak. It would help if they establish expertise #LawJobChat|
|2:33 am||aellislegal:||RT @BaranCLE: @aellislegal young lawyers should reach out to providers and offer to speak. Helpful f they establish expertise #lawjobchat|
|2:33 am||BaranCLE:||Many bar assns offer a formal process on their websites for lawyers to present. I’m compiling a chart of links. Coming soon #LawJobChat|
|2:34 am||lisasolomon:||Tho I wouldn’t call myself “young,” I’ve gotten many speaking gigs by sending proposals 2 organizers of confs. I want 2 speak at #lawjobchat|
|2:34 am||BaranCLE:||…and many of the bar assns I just mentioned also promote diversity opps for lawyers to speak at CLE events #LawJobChat|
|2:35 am||Lawline:||@BaranCLE Agreed. personalities that take initiative to teach, also likely will develop great content for others process #lawjobchat|
|2:36 am||lisasolomon:||I started speaking locally, for the county bar ass’n & local women’s bar ass’n chapter. Now do state/national confs as well #lawjobchat|
|2:37 am||BaranCLE:||@lisasolomon Lisa, if young lawyers followed your example of proposing gigs, they’dbe successful. Let’s chat about this ltr? #LawJobChat|
|2:37 am||mjsq:||great idea, @lisasolomon! What materials do you include in your proposals? #LawJobChat|
|2:38 am||maggieesq:||interested in the answer too – RT@MJSQ Is there still potential for networking & public speaking* development with online CLE? #LawJobChat|
|2:38 am||lisasolomon:||@BaranCLE Any time; always love chatting with you #LawJobChat|
|2:38 am||DavidCohenEsq:||RT @Lawline: @BaranCLE Agreed. personalities that take initiative to teach, also likely will develop great content for others process #lawjobchat|
|2:38 am||aellislegal:||Q5 There was @atlblog post few wks ago by an in-house csl suggesting outside csl present CLEs at office of in-house csl #lawjobchat|
|2:38 am||BaranCLE:||@aellislegal Amanda, you book is great resource for job seekers. Social media so important in job search these days #LawJobChat|
|2:39 am||lisasolomon:||Young attys don’t realize how easy it is 2 become a speaker. Organizations are hungry for content to present #LawJobChat|
|2:40 am||aellislegal:||Q5 cont Suppose sr assoc at firm wanted to create/present CLE onsite for her in-house csl. What’s the next step? #lawjobchat|
|2:40 am||BaranCLE:||Totally skipped by that online CLE Q. @lawline, you may be more qualified to answer #LawJobChat|
|2:40 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE Haha!! Thanks for the plug #lawjobchat|
|2:41 am||Lawline:||RT@lisasolomon Yes! Young attys don’t realize how easy it is 2 become a speaker. Organizations are hungry for content to present #LawJobChat|
|2:41 am||lisasolomon:||@maggieesq Yes, you can integrate attendees into the system you have in place 4 follow-up w/all contacts #lawjobchat|
|2:42 am||BaranCLE:||Re: networking for online CLE speakers — the exposure they get facilitates the easiest of networking – peeps call them! #LawJobChat|
|2:43 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE @lisasolomon Re proposing CLE, is it easier to do this for a local (smaller) bar assn rather than a state bar assn? #lawjobchat|
|2:43 am||Lawline:||re Online CLE: The outreach is incredible. More than just community, it can spread across the country. #LawJobChat|
|2:43 am||lisasolomon:||@BaranCLE #lawjobchat Sort of – as in all marketing, a single contact (even a valuable online program) isn’t sufficient to make the sale|
|2:44 am||DavidCohenEsq:||@Lawline it’s true. I’m chairing an all day MCLE next month. The hardest part is finding the speakers. #LawJobChat|
|2:44 am||BaranCLE:||@aellislegal may be test case for your book! Thinking of P/T gig to supplement entrepreneurial venture -prefer to grow it slowly #LawJobChat|
|2:45 am||lisasolomon:||Easier to propose to local bar ass’n b/c you probably already have contacts there who are happy to provide a platform for you #lawjobchat|
|2:45 am||BaranCLE:||I’ve been chatting with a few folks about creating CLE speakers bureau of sorts. Would be great for young lawyers AND providers #LawJobChat|
|2:46 am||aellislegal:||Q6 Is it easier for young lawyer to become speaker for online CLE course rather than live event or is there no difference? #lawjobchat|
|2:46 am||aellislegal:||LOVE! RT @BaranCLE: Ive been chatting with folks re creating CLE speakers bureau. Would be great for young lawyers AND providers #lawjobchat|
|2:46 am||lisasolomon:||If you want to get invited back as a speaker, submit your materials on time and complete; don’t make organizer hound you #lawjobchat|
|2:47 am||mjsq:||Q7 I don’t mean to dwell but one of best parts of attending CLE is meeting other *participants*. Does online allow for that? #LawJobChat|
|2:47 am||BaranCLE:||I think it’s much easier for a speaker to hone skills online before stepping in front of a podium. @lawline, you think? #LawJobChat|
|2:47 am||aellislegal:||RT @lisasolomon: Easier to propose to local bar assn b/c you probably already have contacts there, happy to provide platform #lawjobchat|
|2:48 am||Lawline:||@baranCLE re speaker bureau: it would turn the tables. The larger pool of speakers could also provide more energy to CLE. #LawJobChat|
|2:48 am||aellislegal:||RT @lisasolomon: If you want to get invited back as a speaker, submit your materials on time and complete #lawjobchat|
|2:48 am||BaranCLE:||A REALLY good way to start speaking is to join associations and BLOG about your specialty. They will seek you out! #LawJobChat|
|2:49 am||aellislegal:||RT @BaranCLE: A REALLY good way to start speaking is to join associations and BLOG about your specialty. They will seek you out! #lawjobchat|
|2:49 am||Lawline:||@mjsq Q7: Online is increasingly interactive. Just like webpages were once static and now we have Twitter… the same is coming #LawJobChat|
|2:49 am||DavidCohenEsq:||RT @lisasolomon: If you want to get invited back as a speaker, submit your materials on time and complete; don’t make organizer hound you #lawjobchat|
|2:50 am||lisasolomon:||@mjsq I include a title, complete program description, and link to past speaking engagements in my proposals #lawjobchat|
|2:50 am||BaranCLE:||Another advantage (or not) of online is that they offer reviews. @lawline does an excellent job of this. #LawJobChat|
|2:50 am||mjsq:||Like yr pts, @LawLine. I agree – e.g., if there’s a hashtag involved w/ CLE or comment forum but wanted to hear from experts. #LawJobChat|
|2:50 am||Lawline:||@mjsq re Q7: That being said, live programs will always have that advantage to a degree. Being able to shake hands is important #LawJobChat|
|2:52 am||BaranCLE:||There’s been huge cry about online vs live re quality, etc. Live is going nowhere. Online provides accessibility and convenience #LawJobChat|
|2:52 am||aellislegal:||Q8 – Some states allow CLE for ‘self-study’ (i.e., prof reading) – what about CLE credit for tweeting? Any states allow? #lawjobchat|
|2:52 am||Lawline:||RT @BaranCLE: There’s been huge cry about online vs live re quality, etc. Live is going nowhere. Online provides accessibility and convenience #LawJobChat|
|2:53 am||lisasolomon:||If ur serious re: speaking, have a friend in the audience videotape u, put samples on ur website (http://tinyurl.com/2uo7djs) #lawjobchat|
|2:53 am||mjsq:||@Lawline, true- but @lisasolomon @barancle @aellislegal & you & I all met online then shook hands in person. Could work w/ CLE #LawJobChat|
|2:53 am||BaranCLE:||Great points by @lisasolomon when presenting, be prepared. Know the rules re: materials, bios, outline, etc #LawJobChat|
|2:54 am||BaranCLE:||@aellislegal CLE for tweeting, blogging and other social media engagement would be great. But the regulators are not even close #LawJobChat|
|2:54 am||Lawline:||Great Pt!@mjsq true- but @lisasolomon @barancle @aellislegal & you & I all met online then shook hands in person. #LawJobChat|
|2:55 am||mjsq:||Wow, @lisasolomon! Another great idea! (she posted clips & testimonials on her website:http://tinyurl.com/2uo7djs) #LawJobChat|
|2:55 am||lisasolomon:||CLE speaking isn’t really that much work: can present same program for many diff organizations, in diff formats (live/online) #lawjobchat|
|2:56 am||Lawline:||re q8: Yes we have a ways to go for tweetCLEs, but what an innovative idea! It would be truly interactive, moreso than live. #LawJobChat|
|2:56 am||mjsq:||Question for @LisaSolomon – how has presenting CLEs helped/advanced your career? You seem to be great example of it working. #LawJobChat|
|2:57 am||lisasolomon:||@mjsq Most important tip: use a tripod and wireless lavalier mic for best recording quality #lawjobchat|
|2:58 am||BaranCLE:||@lisasolomon Lisa has some of the best practical advice on speaking, preparing, oh, and mushrooms (the kind we eat). #LawJobChat|
|2:58 am||aellislegal:||Final (official) Q (though keep tweeting if you wish) – how would someone use your services @barancle? #lawjobchat|
|2:58 am||aellislegal:||Final Q (cont) – and, @lawline, how can attorneys find out more about your CLE programs? #lawjobchat|
|3:00 am||BaranCLE:||You’re sweet for asking, Amanda. If putting on a webinar, 3-day conference or any CLE activity and need accreditation, we help #LawJobChat|
|3:00 am||lisasolomon:||@mjsq Speaking (along w/writing) gives me greater credibility w/potential clients. Exposes me to PCs (I work only 4 other attys) #lawjobchat|
|3:00 am||BaranCLE:||Again, CLE jobs at CLE providers, Bar Associations, Law Firms, any entity that offers CLE courses. Use social media to find ‘em #LawJobChat|
|3:01 am||Lawline:||final q: go to www.lawline.com. There are options to become a presenter there as well. We respond to all requests. #LawJobChat|
|3:02 am||lisasolomon:||Even if other attys aren’t ur clients, listing CLEs u’ve presented on ur website will make PCs think “he/she must be an expert” #lawjobchat|
|3:03 am||aellislegal:||@BaranCLE @lawline Thanks so much!! I should include @lisasolomon, too – you all shared brilliant advice #lawjobchat|
|3:03 am||mjsq:||I contacted @BaranCLE to see if my blogging for lawyers course could be accredited. I had no idea the process before I asked. #LawJobChat|
|3:04 am||aellislegal:||As always, I’ll post summary + transcript tomorrow. And, back on schedule in Jan with #LawJobChaton the last Thurs – 1/27/11 #lawjobchat|
|3:04 am||BaranCLE:||Thanks guys, this was a lot of fun. That hour flew by! #LawJobChat|
|3:04 am||mjsq:||Agree w/ @aellislegal, awesome chat. Lots of topics/different directions but it was very enjoyable. #LawJobChat|
|3:06 am||Lawline:||@aellislegal Thank you for organizing. As @BaranCLE stated, it is a pleasure to participate. #lawjobchat|
|3:12 am||econwriter5:||RT @mjsq: Btw, I love @BaranCLE‘s job board. Not only CLE jobs. Great resource.http://www.barancle.com/cle-jobs/ #LawJobChat|
|3:14 am||econwriter5:||#lawjobchat looked like a good one tonight. Will have to read transcript.|
|3:14 am||econwriter5:||RT @BaranCLE: for a course to be CLE accredited, the provider must apply in each state. We help you through that process #LawJobChat|
|3:15 am||DavidCohenEsq:||@Lawline @aellislegal @BaranCLE @mjsq Great job tonight! #lawjobchat|
I’ve used a few of the Zoho products and liked them. Zoho started an affiliate program so, if you’re thinking of trying Zoho, use the links below to support RecruiterEsq. You can also use them to sign up for the free Zoho products.
For those who receive my newsletter, this may be some old news. But, who knows, maybe you missed it.
I updated the BigLaw 200 Jobs. You can download the updated version for $4.00! You can even share the link with a friend – you’re allowed 3 downloads with each purchase. I hope to get the BigLaw 100 Job List up there soon.
If you don’t want to pay $4.00 for the most up-to-date information, you can wait for the BigLaw Job archives. First available? October 2010 – BigLaw 200 Jobs.
Some of the jobs on the archived lists will no longer be available because, well, time is of the essence. (Which is why you should buy ‘em when they first come out!) Therefore, I won’t be including any links in the archives either.