Lessons from #LawJobChat: @betsymunnell on Online Tools for Career Management

Note: Just because this post is a little delayed, doesn’t mean it’s not worth reading :-)

On November 18, 2010, we hosted our fifth #LawJobChat, a chat on Twitter that usually takes place the last Thursday of each month from 9 – 10 pm Eastern.  (November and December we switched up the schedule due to the holidays!)

During #LawJobChat #5, we spoke with Elizabeth (“Betsy”) Munnell (@BetsyMunnell),  a former BigLaw partner and rainmaker who started Elizabeth Munnell & Associates, where she focuses on “business development training for law students and young lawyers.”

Betsy provided tips on how to curate the web, monitor practice areas or firms of interest, and build connections with the business intelligence you gather.  Betsy can be reached on Twitter or LinkedIn.

It was thanks to this #LawJobChat that we also started the LawJobChat LinkedIn group, which you should join!

5 Takeaway Tweets

  • @BetsyMunnell: Use Twitter links/JDSupra/RSS to deepen expertise on legal and business, targeted industries, to research prospects & more
  • @BetsyMunnell: A smart, strategic web curator’s strategy must help you build relationships…to develop your reputation/network.
  • @BetsyMunnell: If you have some material relationships developing then you want to be watching subjects of interest to them.
  • @BetsyMunnell:  Moral: Watch for breaking news, for data that will help someone else shine. Send it immediately.
  • @BetsyMunnell: …the web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers

I’d also recommend Amanda’s post that highlights the important points that Betsy covered.

Mark Your Calendars: #LawJobChat – January 27, 9-10 pm Eastern

Before I paste the full transcript, I’ll remind everyone that the next #LawJobChat will be at its normal date and time – the last Thursday of the month – from 9-10 pm EST.   We’re finalizing the topic and guest host for next time but we’re also open to your suggestions and requests.  You can leave a comment and/or send me an e-mail at melissa at recruiteresq dot com.

Full Transcript

2:00 am aellislegal: Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat
2:01 am j2_whittington: Time for #lawjobchat
2:01 am j2_whittington: RT @aellislegal: Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat
2:01 am aellislegal: You may already use online resources in your practice – we hope tonight’s info will share new resources #lawjobchat
2:02 am LNLawSchool: RT @aellislegal: Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat
2:02 am aellislegal: Our guest tonight is @betsymunnell, former BigLaw partner/rainmaker who now coaches attorneys. She knows A LOT abt online tools #lawjobchat
2:03 am aellislegal: I’ll let @betsymunnell share a little more about her background! #lawjobchat
2:03 am BetsyMunnell: Thanks so much Amanda for inviting me to take part in #LawJobChat. #lawjobchat
2:03 am BetsyMunnell: When I started a 2nd career (July ’10) I never imagined becoming a breathless fan of social media & online learning for lawyers! #lawjobchat
2:04 am BetsyMunnell: I certainly didn’t expect my new business to gain traction so quickly, in part due to my enthusiasm for Twitter & LinkedIN. #lawjobchat
2:04 am aellislegal: Oh, after @betsymunnell‘s intro, I’ll start w/some questions, labeling them Q1, Q2, etc. Feel free to jump in when u have ??s #lawjobchat
2:04 am BetsyMunnell: As a lawyer I totally underestimated the power of online platforms, but I caught up fast via strategic Twitter/LinkedIN follows #lawjobchat
2:05 am BetsyMunnell: Any JD or law student can enrich & advance his/her career by disciplined use of the web. We’ll make suggestions like these…. #lawjobchat
2:05 am BetsyMunnell: 1. Use curated searches to identify an interesting, growth practice area (or vet a possible new law firm). #lawjobchat
2:05 am BetsyMunnell: 2 Use Twitter links/JDSupra/RSS to deepen expertise on legal and business, targeted industries, to research prospects & more #lawjobchat
2:06 am LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: 1. Use curated searches to identify an interesting, growth practice area (or vet a possible new law firm). #lawjobchat
2:06 am mjsq: RT @BetsyMunnell As lawyer I underestimated pwr of online platforms, but I caught up fast via strategic Twitter/LinkedIN follows #lawjobchat
2:06 am BetsyMunnell: 3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. And: 4. Learn how to deploy both to generate business. #lawjobchat
2:07 am LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: 2 Use Twitter links/JDSupra/RSS to deepen expertise, to research prospects & more #lawjobchat
2:07 am BetsyMunnell: OK Amanda–I’m exhausted from that lengthy monologue–time for a question. #lawjobchat
2:07 am LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: 3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. #lawjobchat
2:08 am LNLawSchool: And: 4. Learn how to deploy both to generate business. #lawjobchat
2:08 am aellislegal: Q1: Great! Let’s start with a basic: which websites do you check daily? Which 3 sites should JDs/students check daily? #lawjobchat
2:09 am BetsyMunnell: The web is huge–so we all need favorite a web filter: a search engine? an RSS feed like Google Reader? a Blawg ?Carnival? ? #lawjobchat
2:10 am BetsyMunnell: I recommend Twitter for news, LinkedIn and JDSupra for network status, industry info, and some combo of blogs #lawjobchat
2:11 am j2_whittington: RT @BetsyMunnell: I recommend Twitter for news, LinkedIn and JDSupra for network status, industry info, and some combo of blogs #lawjobchat
2:11 am BetsyMunnell: I am not a fan of Facebook for lawyers. And I see the web as primarily a news and data filter for practitioners. #lawjobchat
2:11 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell Facebook? #lawjobchat
2:12 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell: read my mind! #lawjobchat
2:12 am BetsyMunnell: The ethical and other difficulties of engaging fully on Twitter are challenging. Blogging can be tricky too. But.. #lawjobchat
2:13 am BetsyMunnell: Ultimately, with enough experience, many lawyers can benefit enormously from a blog presence–perhaps thru @lexblog #lawjobchat
2:13 am aellislegal: Q2: Let’s use a specific example – how would a health lawyer use web filters to gain updated info for that area/industry? #lawjobchat
2:14 am BetsyMunnell: Lawyers and students who want to consider blogging should follow @kevinokeefe–he has it all figured out. #lawjobchat
2:16 am BetsyMunnell: In my book Twitter is the zenith of Web filters…I use lists to follow the best subject curators. #lawjobchat
2:17 am aellislegal: Q1 re blogging – I think @mjsq has some blogging info/basics on her site, too #lawjobchat
2:17 am BetsyMunnell: The experts you follow must be reliable-so you need ?referrals? from seasoned lawyers, others. Ask them. Or… #lawjobchat
2:17 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell do you use Twitter’s built-in list function or a tool like @formulists? #lawjobchat
2:17 am BetsyMunnell: …raid their lists. :) In health care I like @HealthBlawg & the blog carnivals he favors. #lawjobchat
2:19 am BetsyMunnell: @mjsq I use @hootsuite and have set up a number of lists, including Best Content, News, Business News, Science, etc #lawjobchat
2:19 am BetsyMunnell: The best curators/lawyers cover industries ?holistically?–law, business, IT, policy, different types of clients #lawjobchat
2:20 am aellislegal: Q2 cont – So, find health care lawyers like @healthlawblawg and see who they follow #lawjobchat
2:20 am BriHoffman: not going to be able to participate in #lawjobchat tonight, but i look forward to the transcript! have fun, and hope ur all doing well!
2:21 am BetsyMunnell: @j2_whittington is a perfect example of blogging’s benefits & he’s gone viral–! #lawjobchat
2:21 am mjsq: Agree. RT BetsyMunnell ..best curators/lawyers cover industries ?holistically?-law, business, IT, policy, diff types of clients #lawjobchat
2:22 am aellislegal: Q2 cont – what about using Google alerts to learn about “health law”? Or Google alerts for health lawyers (if job searching)? #lawjobchat
2:23 am BetsyMunnell: One of the beauties of Twitter etc is the range of possible info-sharp lawyers understand the industries they serve #lawjobchat
2:24 am BetsyMunnell: I used Google Alerts for a while but was disappointed–the info from the sweeps comes in too slowly. So.. #lawjobchat
2:25 am BetsyMunnell: I now use Twitter searches and set them up in Hootsuite columns. If job searching you’re still after similar info #lawjobchat
2:26 am BetsyMunnell: You need to make your interviewer see the depth of your interest in/knowledge of the field and his/her company #lawjobchat
2:27 am aellislegal: Q2 cont For those that may not b familiar w/Twitter searches, do u mean a “saved search” for “health law”? Any special steps? #lawjobchat
2:27 am BetsyMunnell: so you need to be way out in front of current developments at that company –such as regulatory changes, litigation #lawjobchat
2:28 am BetsyMunnell: I’d have to check this again–I can’t recall how I set up the three I have Amanda–but it was easy–maybe a new tab? #lawjobchat
2:29 am BetsyMunnell: Other ways to track legal fields, industries, companies, prospects: RSS feeders-but you need patience/discipline #lawjobchat
2:30 am aellislegal: Q3 Time mgmt is huge issue for lawyers – how often do u have to check the search results? #lawjobchat
2:30 am j2_whittington: @HammieHamHam check out #lawjobchat – pretty good info from some really good ppl about getting your name out there – never 2 early 2 start
2:31 am LNLawSchool: @betsymunnell In Hootsuite, it’s as easy as setting up a new “stream” with a search term. Very important, imo. #lawjobchat
2:32 am BetsyMunnell: Q3 Good question. The net itself can be an enormous distraction/timewaster. Especially if you enjoy the people. #lawjobchat
2:32 am squirrelpants: @BetsyMunnell What is the benefit to hootsuite over tweetdeck or Twitter? #lawjobchat
2:33 am BetsyMunnell: The search results in Hootsuite show up alongside al the other lists/streams and are easy to check. #lawjobchat
2:33 am BetsyMunnell: How often to check–well that depends on where you are in your networking/biz development strategy: #lawjobchat
2:34 am aellislegal: Q4: Do you find LinkedIn groups helpful for gaining info about practice areas/industries? If so, any examples? #lawjobchat
2:34 am BetsyMunnell: If you have some material relationships developing then you want to be watching subjects of interest to them. #lawjobchat
2:34 am BetsyMunnell: When you see something break, you want to be the first to send along the linkl–making yourself valuable/memorable. #lawjobchat
2:35 am BetsyMunnell: @squirrelpants First, that’s one hell of a great handle. Second–I don’t know anything about tweetdeck, but #lawjobchat
2:36 am BetsyMunnell: twitter alone just doesn’t give me much flexibility–and is way too disorderly for my brain. #lawjobchat
2:37 am BetsyMunnell: Q4 I think LinkedIN is a tremendous resource for information when used strategically. Alumni groups can be great. #lawjobchat
2:37 am j2_whittington: @BetsyMunnell but don’t you need to be careful and read what you’re RTing first tho? jrnalists have taken big hits b/c of this #lawjobchat
2:37 am BetsyMunnell: You have to check things out, watch to see who is active, wheter the content is intelligent and helpful, etc #lawjobchat
2:39 am BetsyMunnell: My favorite thing about LInkedIn is its partnership with JDSupra–the premium account even send you posts based on #lawjobchat
2:40 am aellislegal: Re watching subjects of interest, job seekers: use searches 2 find articles in desired pract area, send to atty w/whom u intvwd #lawjobchat
2:40 am BetsyMunnell: ..sorry–more on @JD Supra- I have found some wonderful substance thru this vehicle. #lawjobchat
2:40 am mjsq: I wondered about the premium account… what are the benefits? Would you recommend for all lawyers to upgrade their @LinkedIn? #lawjobchat
2:41 am BetsyMunnell: Jack- yes lots of people RT links based solely on the tweeter’s intro or the title of the post itself. Lazy. Risky. #lawjobchat
2:41 am aellislegal: Q4 cont – Using the health lawyer ex .. health lawyer could subscribe 2 health law feeds on JD Supra to gain info re health law? #lawjobchat
2:41 am BaranCLE: Good Q. Many don’t RT @j2_whittington @BetsyMunnell but don’t you need to be careful and read what you’re RTi #lawjobchat
2:42 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell Also, I wondered if premium @LinkedIn accts should be benefit firms offer so that their emplys can learn. Opinion? #lawjobchat
2:43 am BetsyMunnell: @mjsq I don’t recommend an upgrade ($) unless you’re following a specific, hot topic well vetted on @JDSupra. #lawjobchat
2:45 am BetsyMunnell: @mjsq Firms should help lawyers access online info, but I don’t think JDSupra has yet proven value of premium. #lawjobchat
2:46 am aellislegal: Q4 cont Still using health lawyer ex … any specific groups for health lawyers to join on LinkedIn? Search groups for keywords? #lawjobchat
2:46 am BetsyMunnell: @aellislegal – there are a number of large firms that post routinely on JDSupra-some fields are better than others #lawjobchat
2:47 am BetsyMunnell: As an example, my old firm’s Insurance/Reinsurance practice regularly tweets/posts on LInkedIN/JDSupra #lawjobchat
2:48 am BetsyMunnell: I understand that the insurance posts are carefully followed in the industry #lawjobchat
2:49 am BaranCLE: RT @aellislegal Welcome to the 5th #LawJobChat! Tonight we are discussing online tools to manage your career. #lawjobchat
2:50 am aellislegal: Q5: You’ve shared tips re Twitter searches, JDSupra, RSS feeds. Any examples of lawyers using these to learn abt pract areas? #lawjobchat
2:51 am cyclaw: Interesting discussion going on at #lawjobchat. Great info for a work-in-progress solo like me..
2:51 am BetsyMunnell: Q4 Keywords for health care? Healthcare reform. FraudAbuse. Conflict of Interest..That sort of thing. #lawjobchat
2:52 am BetsyMunnell: Q5 Yes–to preface my answer..The end goal for all of this-of course-is a self-sustaining law practice. #lawjobchat
2:54 am BetsyMunnell: A smart, strategic web curator’s strategy must help you build relationships…to develop your reputation/network. #lawjobchat
2:54 am BetsyMunnell: One of my clients-a small firm 4th year- wants to develop a peer referral source in a big firm. #lawjobchat
2:55 am j2_whittington: For those of u solos out there lking for help I would recommend @SCartierLiebel -Solo Practice University- Great tool for solos #lawjobchat
2:55 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? How do they turn it into competitive intelligence? #lawjobchat
2:56 am BetsyMunnell: The Biglaw hotshot he’s targeted is in cleantech, biofuels–stuff like that. She’s expected to blog weekly. #lawjobchat
2:56 am mjsq: *how does one turn it into competitive intelligence. #lawjobchat
2:56 am aellislegal: @betsymunnell Thoughts re evernote? RT @bcuban can evernote benefit attorneys? #lawjobchat
2:56 am BetsyMunnell: And of course she is anxious about proving herself in a firm where only 15% of the equity partners are women. #lawjobchat
2:57 am aellislegal: Good Q RT @mjsq: @BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? #lawjobchat
2:57 am maggieesq: RT @BetsyMunnell: Jack- yes lots of people RT links based solely on the tweeter’s intro or the title of the post itself. Lazy. Risky. #lawjobchat
2:58 am BetsyMunnell: My guy set a twitter search & read the NYT Green Blog daily. One fine day he spotted a breaking post, sent it 2 her #lawjobchat
2:59 am BetsyMunnell: His BigLaw contact, thrilled, sent it to the partner she works for, who was grateful & impressed. #lawjobchat
2:59 am BetsyMunnell: Same goes for the associate…who matured into a solid referral source overnight.. #lawjobchat
2:59 am aellislegal: @j2_whittington Great point re @SCartierLiebel‘s SPU as online tool for solos … can take classes for diff practice areas #lawjobchat
3:00 am BetsyMunnell: Moral: Watch for breaking news, for data that will help someone else shine. Send it immediately. #lawjobchat
3:00 am BetsyMunnell: That’s how you build a practice. #lawjobchat
3:01 am BetsyMunnell: @SCartierLiebel‘s SPU is a wonderful resource–as are a number of other platforms/blogs etc @myshingle for example #lawjobchat
3:01 am aellislegal: Final Q – we’ve talked about lawyers using these tools -what about firms? How are they using online tools to reach/help clients? #lawjobchat
3:02 am BetsyMunnell: Last Q Several savvy large firms are offering free online documents and support (“document generators”) online. #lawjobchat
3:03 am aellislegal: Good Q RT @mjsq: @BetsyMunnell how does one organize/use info once they find/gather it online? #lawjobchat
3:03 am BetsyMunnell: These target startups and venture capitalists and are brilliant marketing tools. #lawjobchat
3:04 am BetsyMunnell: Wilson Sonsini put out a term sheet generator for entrepreneurs in ’09. #lawjobchat
3:05 am BetsyMunnell: But law firms have always offered fre/discounted assistance at that level–I know I did. It’s good business. #lawjobchat
3:06 am BetsyMunnell: The real cutting edge stuff is coming from Goodwin Procter via @GoodwinBigIdeas & the new “Founder’s Workbench”. #lawjobchat
3:06 am aellislegal: @betsymunnell you’ve provided some great insight re using searches, RSS, JDSupra, LI Groups to learn abt pract areas .. #lawjobchat
3:06 am aellislegal: @betsymunnell you’ve provided some great insight re using searches, RSS, JDSupra, LI Groups to learn abt pract areas .. #lawjobchat
3:07 am BetsyMunnell: Very useful documents and tremendous support on many levels–tax, regulatory etc. Great marketing. #lawjobchat
3:07 am aellislegal: @betsymunnell and great insight re firms’ use of online tools. THANK YOU for joining us to share your knowledge! #lawjobchat
3:07 am BetsyMunnell: The thing I love about Goodwin’s site is that it benefits the profession at large, and law students too. #lawjobchat
3:08 am BetsyMunnell: It?s way better than PLI/CLE, and free. #lawjobchat
3:08 am BetsyMunnell: This way BigLaw can help train lawyers in practical skills as well as specialized substance–law schools doesn’t! #lawjobchat
3:09 am mjsq: RT @BetsyMunnell …real cutting edge stuff is coming from Goodwin Procter via @GoodwinBigIdeas & the new “Founder’s Workbench” #lawjobchat
3:09 am BetsyMunnell: Thanks Amanda – my pleasure. I appreciate being included and welcome questions offline from anyone I missed! #lawjobchat
3:10 am j2_whittington: Do you guys have a #lawjobchat group on LinkedIn?
3:10 am BetsyMunnell: Well Jack we will soon! #lawjobchat
3:11 am LNLawSchool: Many thanks @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal and others for a great #lawjobchat! #Lawschool students, search on the hashtag to read the script.
3:11 am aellislegal: As always, I’ll post a summary and chat transcript tomorrow #lawjobchat
3:11 am mjsq: @BetsyMunnell Thank you so much for joining us! I know we could’ve talked for hours about this stuff… #lawjobchat
3:12 am LNLawSchool: Great idea, Jack! RT @j2_whittington: Do you guys have a #lawjobchat group on LinkedIn?
3:13 am mjsq: We will! RT @LNLawSchool Great idea, Jack! RT @j2_whittington: Do you guys have a #lawjobchatgroup on LinkedIn? #lawjobchat
3:13 am BetsyMunnell: @mjsq Thanks Melissa- I really enjoyed this–my first experience with a real time online discussion. #lawjobchat
3:14 am LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: Well Jack we will soon! #lawjobchat (re:#lawjobchat Linkedin group)
3:18 am BetsyMunnell: I need to add one thing I wanted to cover– the web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat
3:20 am BetsyMunnell: @lancegodard?s @22twts & @cordellparvin?s podcasts give you useful access to lawyers in your field #lawjobchat
3:21 am BetsyMunnell: Tip: Be sure to follow marquis blogs (WSJ, NYT etc). Blogs rarely ?break? news, but offer good, quotable analysis. #lawjobchat
3:22 am BetsyMunnell: Finally–be watching for growth practice areas–health care and “green” especially. But also China and #KM. #lawjobchat
3:24 am BetsyMunnell: For China, I like @DanHarris, among others. Knowledge management is fascinating–a trending field. #lawjobchat
3:25 am BetsyMunnell: #KM is at the intersection of law, project management, IT…and its key to the future of the profession. #lawjobchat
3:25 am BetsyMunnell: I’m learning about #KM via @greglambert @LawyerKM & a bunch of very scary smart law librarian tweeps. #lawjobchat
3:26 am BetsyMunnell: Thanks to all those who participated. Made my day. #lawjobchat
3:34 am mjsq: Agree. Req reading: Bill Gates. RT @BetsyMunnell #KM = intersection of law, proj mgement, IT..& it’s key to future of profession #lawjobchat
3:34 am j2_whittington: Alright #lawjobchat was very informative – but now its back to this appellate brief – til’ the night closes in bow-bow-bow #lawschool
3:50 am lancegodard: @BetsyMunnell Thanks, Betsy, for including @22Twts in your excellent #lawjobchat! Lots of useful info.
4:22 am aellislegal: @v9n You can thank @betsymunnell (follow her if you aren’t already)! She mentioned @HealthBlawg on #LawJobChat tonight
4:22 am steveMwade: So true.. RT@BetsyMunnell: the web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat
9:14 am mijori23: RT @j2_whittington: #lawschool students keep in mind #lawjobchat is tonight beginning at 9 EST – see you there – LOTS of invaluable advice from GREAT ppl
9:17 am mijori23: RT @LNLawSchool: RT @betsymunnell: 3. Build & monitor your personal brand & a rich professional network. #lawjobchat
11:24 am keyvanrastegar: RT @BetsyMunnell: Tip: Be sure to follow marquis blogs (WSJ, NYT etc). Blogs rarely ?break? news, but offer good, quotable analysis. #lawjobchat
12:55 pm healthblawg: Thx 4 mention > @aellislegal @betsymunnell #lawjobchat
9:33 pm BetsyMunnell: Thanks for the RT! @stevemwade: So true. RT@BetsyMunnell-The web offers excellent ways to learn directly from practicing lawyers #lawjobchat
9:35 pm BetsyMunnell: Thanks for the RT! RT @mjsq: Agree. Req reading: Bill Gates. RT @BetsyMunnell #KM is key to future of profession #lawjobchat
9:35 pm BetsyMunnell: @lnlawschool Thanks for participating in #lawjobchat!!!
9:36 pm BetsyMunnell: @lawyercoach Thanks for mentioning our #lawjobchat!
9:36 pm associatesmind: @BetsyMunnell I didn’t get to participate in #lawjobchat but I read over it this morning. Good stuff. Going to try and make the next one.
9:37 pm BetsyMunnell: Thanks for the mention! RT @barancle: Good Q. Many don’t RT @j2_whittington @BetsyMunnell …be careful and read what you’re RTi #lawjobchat
9:39 pm BetsyMunnell: Thanks! It was fun! RT @associatesmind:… didn’t get to participate in #lawjobchat…… Good stuff. Going to try and make the next one.
9:41 pm BetsyMunnell: My pleasure!!! I love your site. RT @carolynelefant: @BetsyMunnell thank you for mention of myshingle as solo resource at #lawjobchat

Lessons from #LawJobChat: @lancegodard on Legal Marketing

Way back in October, we hosted our 5th #LawJobChat and spoke with Lance Godard (@lancegodard), a legal marketing professional and business development consultant.

Lance is Principal at The Godard Group where he consults with lawyers and law firms on business development, B2B communications, strategic planning, and social media.  He’s also an active member of the Legal Marketing Association.  Finally, he is the force behind @22Tweets, a project through which lawyers may tell their stories over Twitter.  For those who are unfamiliar with the project, think of it this way: @22Tweets is Fresh Air and Lance Godard is Terry Gross (but male).

Lance spent over fifteen years at Jones Day, one of the world’s largest law firms, where he worked on international business development, communications, and management.  He specialized in helping the firm open new offices abroad.

When we spoke with him, we asked about how business development relates to one’s law career.  We asked when lawyers should start thinking about business development and how they should approach the subject at interviews.

It was interesting that this was the quietest #LawJobChat we hosted so far.  Perhaps it was due to Game 2 of the World Series.  Or, as Lance put it (liberally using quotations), “It’s like talking to a 7th grade class about sex.  Everyone has questions but no one wants to raise their hands.”  I think Lance’s characterization is pretty on point.

Topic

Business Development, Legal Marketing, When & How

Moderators

Amanda Ellis (@aellislegal) & Melissa Sachs (@mjsq)

Guest Co-Host

1.  Lance Godard (@lancegodard) – Principal at The Godard Group; Member at Large – Board of Directors, Legal Marketing Association – Ohio Chapter; Moderator/Founder @22Tweets

Transcript (copied & pasted from What the hashtag?!)

All times are Pacific Time

1:00 am aellislegal: Welcome to #LawJobChat! Tonight we’re discussing the intersection of business development & your job search. #lawjobchat
1:01 am aellislegal: We selected this topic because we are seeing more firms look to hire attorneys (including associates) with portable business #lawjobchat
1:02 am aellislegal: We decided to invite a business dev expert to offer tips about how, when associates should dev business, including biz plan #lawjobchat
1:02 am aellislegal: Our guest co-host/expert is @lancegodard! Lance, thanks for joining us! Tell us a bit about your background #lawjobchat
1:04 am lancegodard: Thank you very much @aellislegal @mjsq for having me! #lawjobchat
1:04 am lancegodard: I did international business development & marketing for an AmLaw 10 firm for 18 years (Paris, Hong Kong, US) #lawjobchat
1:04 am lancegodard: Consulting for past 2 (as of next Mon), working w/ lawyers & firms to set BD / mktg objectives & develop plans for meeting them #lawjobchat
1:05 am mjsq: @lancegodard congratulations on your 2 year mark! #lawjobchat #lawjobchat
1:06 am aellislegal: and, I bet many of our chat participants have read your @22twts! Can you tell others what @22twtsis? #lawjobchat
1:07 am lancegodard: For those of you who don?t know, 22 Tweets (@22Twts on Twitter) are live interviews of lawyers I do on Twitter #lawjobchat
1:07 am lancegodard: It started as an experiment to explore Twitter as a comms channel, and really took off. I?ve talked to more than 80 lawyers now #lawjobchat
1:08 am lancegodard: They?re great fun to do and (I hope) a great way for lawyers to tell their stories on Twitter, stories that clients like to hear #lawjobchat
1:08 am OreLawPracMgmt: RT @mjsq: 30 minutes until #LawJobChat re: legal marketing & business development w/ @lancegodard! It’s going to be a good one!!
1:09 am aellislegal: I think @22twts is a great way to find lawyers to follow – esp if a lawyer or law student is new to Twitter, looking to connect #lawjobchat
1:10 am aellislegal: Follow @22twts for updates on @lancegodard‘s upcoming interviews with lawyers #lawjobchat
1:11 am aellislegal: Q1 @lancegodard, when stating your background, you mentioned “business development” and “marketing” – is there a difference? #lawjobchat
1:12 am lancegodard: Next week we interview @PriyaLawyer and the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat
1:12 am lancegodard: Q1 Absolutely. Biz dev=identifying your targets: people / companies / etc in a position to give you business or help you get it #lawjobchat
1:13 am UTLawCSO: RT @aellislegal: …@22twts is a great way to find lawyers to follow-esp if…law student is new to Twitter, looking to connect #lawjobchat
1:13 am lancegodard: Q1 Marketing = tactics for reaching with those targets: publications, websites, meetings, social events, etc. #lawjobchat
1:16 am aellislegal: Q2 @lancegodard do lawyers need a biz dev plan AND mktg strategies? Are these separate “documents”? #lawjobchat
1:18 am lancegodard: Q2 Yes and yes. Biz plan is ?who what why?: who are potential clients, what are opps for work, why you best candidate for work #lawjobchat
1:19 am lancegodard: Q2 Mktg plan is the how: the way you’re going to communicate with those potential clients so they know what you bring to table. #lawjobchat
1:20 am aellislegal: Q3 @lancegodard Excellent! So, lawyers need (1) biz plan and (2) mktg plan. Which should come first or does it matter? #lawjobchat
1:20 am lancegodard: Q2 But doesn’t have to be formal. ID your potential clients, why they should be, and how you will reach them. Write it down #lawjobchat
1:21 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Good info – Biz Plan and Mktg Plan don’t have to be formal but should be in writing #lawjobchat
1:22 am lancegodard: Q3 Biz plan needs to come first: you need to set goals / objectives / targets before you decide which tactics work best for each #lawjobchat
1:23 am aellislegal: Q4 @lancegodard When should a lawyer create a biz plan? i.e., 1st year of practice, 3rd year of practice? #lawjobchat
1:25 am lancegodard: Q4 As soon as they can?. It?s a question of not waiting for good things to come your way, of being responsible for your success #lawjobchat
1:25 am lancegodard: Q4 If you know what you want, why not go thru discipline of figuring out who will buy your services & how you will reach them? #lawjobchat
1:27 am lancegodard: Q4 Although things may change at start of career, writing down a plan doesn’t mean it’s written in stone. So earlier is better #lawjobchat
1:27 am reneefishman: @aellislegal chiming in to #lawjobchat: biz plan comes 1st; mktg plan is part of biz plan
1:28 am aellislegal: Q4 cont @lancegodard So, a 1st year construction lit associate could identify industry orgs to join, key contacts n constrn ind? #lawjobchat
1:30 am aellislegal: Q4 cont @lancegodard And, then const lit assoc could outline key mtgs for the orgs, lunch dates w/developers, etc as mktg plan? #lawjobchat
1:30 am lancegodard: Q4 Absolutely. And the people in the orgs to meet. And maybe what she hopes to gain from knowing those pple & being in that org #lawjobchat
1:31 am aellislegal: Nice thought – biz plan as objectives and mktg = to do steps RT reneefishman biz plan comes 1st; mktg plan is part of biz plan #lawjobchat
1:32 am lancegodard: Q4 (slow fingers) yes, but before mktg plan she needs to think about the “who what why”: who to meet, what they bring her (cont) #lawjobchat
1:33 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Ha! No worries, Tweetchat is sometimes slow refreshing!! #lawjobchat
1:34 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Q4 – got it, biz plan obj first, then marketing steps #lawjobchat
1:34 am lancegodard: Q4 and why it makes sense for them to meet her, ie why they should talk to her and ultimately help her out #lawjobchat
1:34 am lawmgtguru: RT @aellislegal: We decided to invite a business dev expert to offer tips about how, when associates should dev business, including biz plan #lawjobchat
1:35 am aellislegal: Q5 @lancegodard How often should an associate review/revise objectives in biz plan? Monthly? Quarterly? Annually? #lawjobchat
1:38 am lancegodard: Q5 Regularly…. Obviously depends on how much they hope to achieve. Ideally they’d spend some time looking at it every week #lawjobchat
1:39 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Excellent! #lawjobchat
1:39 am lancegodard: Q5 But that may not be realistic. I’ve seen lawyers with very detailed plans that drive much of their non-legal work time #lawjobchat
1:40 am aellislegal: Q6 @lancegodard What if the assoc is interviewing, firm doesn’t ask for biz plan, should assoc offer it? does firm size matter? #lawjobchat
1:40 am lancegodard: Q5 and others that have vague plans they check in on from time to time. But if there’s too much to do, it won’t get done #lawjobchat
1:41 am lancegodard: Q5 likewise, if there’s not much to do, it’s probably not really a biz dev and marketing plan…. #lawjobchat
1:42 am aellislegal: Q6 cont @lancegodard i.e., is it appropriate to offer biz plan to mid-small firm but not to large firm (or vice versa)? #lawjobchat
1:44 am lancegodard: Q6 I think the mid to small firms much more interested in the biz plan since those associates need to hit the ground running #lawjobchat
1:45 am lancegodard: Q6 but in all cases, whether or not associate brings out the plan, the discipline of having done the plan will improve interview #lawjobchat
1:46 am aellislegal: RT @lancegodard: the discipline of having done the plan will improve interview #lawjobchat
1:46 am aellislegal: @lancegodard I like that … having a plan improves the interview! #lawjobchat
1:46 am lancegodard: Q6 Being able to talk about law you want to practice, market for it, clients that need it etc will make you stand out #lawjobchat
1:48 am aellislegal: Q7 @lancegodard What’s the best way for associates to get started with creating a biz plan? what if firm doesn’t offer training? #lawjobchat
1:49 am PriyaLawyer: Looking forward to it RT @lancegodard: Next week we interview @PriyaLawyer and the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat
1:49 am aellislegal: RT @lancegodard: Being able to talk about law you want to practice, market for it, clients that need it will make you stand out #lawjobchat
1:50 am lancegodard: Q7 Firms should include marketing and biz dev training in their associate dev programs (it?s in their best interest)…. #lawjobchat
1:52 am aellislegal: @lancegodard If firms don’t offer formal training, should associate find rainmaker ptr in firm/section and talk to him/her? #lawjobchat
1:52 am squirrelpants: On the marketing side, how do you find publications that fit your practice area & determine which ones to focus on? #lawjobchat
1:52 am lancegodard: Q7 But if no program associates can start by sharpening effective mktg skills, eg asking questions, listening to answers, etc #lawjobchat
1:53 am lancegodard: Q7 Doesn?t have to be in formal situations, but in everyday conversations they have with clients / peers / colleagues #lawjobchat
1:53 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Or, should the associate look outside the firm? Coach/trainer, publications to read for guidance? #lawjobchat
1:54 am lancegodard: Q7 If they need extra help, there are many things they can do. First, there exist a lot of good materials online now #lawjobchat
1:55 am lancegodard: Q7 eg templates, plans, articles, etc. Hiring a marketing coach / trainer always a possibility. Investing now will pay off later #lawjobchat
1:55 am aellislegal: @squirrelpants clarification – publication where you want to publish or publication to read? #lawjobchat
1:56 am aellislegal: Q7 @lancegodard Can you recommend any online sites as a starting point? #lawjobchat
1:59 am aellislegal: Finally, back to @22twts – is there a site where ppl can read past interviews? What if someone wants to be interviewed? #lawjobchat
2:00 am lancegodard: Q7 JD Supra law practice section is good, Larry Bodine’s Law Marketing Portal, I have blog of mktg / BD reading recommendations #lawjobchat
2:01 am lancegodard: Q7 and there an ever-increasing number of LinkedIn groups that deal with law marketing and biz dev #lawjobchat
2:01 am aellislegal: Excellent! RT @lancegodard: JD Supra law practice sect is good, Larry Bodines Law Marketing Portal, my blog BD reading recs #lawjobchat
2:02 am lancegodard: Q7 Finally, I think that lawyers need to look to other industries for help and ideas, esp professional services but not only #lawjobchat
2:03 am mjsq: Q7 cont. I’d add on re: LinkedIn to join groups related to practice areas that may not be legally-oriented. #lawjobchat
2:03 am aellislegal: @lancegodard Thank you for chatting w/us! You’ve provided excellent biz dev tips to help associates stand out in interviews! #lawjobchat
2:04 am mjsq: Q7. e.g., an group related to energy but not only for energy lawyers #lawjobchat
2:05 am aellislegal: FYI, all – our Nov chat will be the 3rd Thurs (instead of last Thurs) b/c of T’giving — next chat is 11/18 at 9pm Eastern #lawjobchat
2:05 am lancegodard: @aellislegal you’re very welcome, it’s been a lot of fun! I could have gone on for another hour (or two)! #lawjobchat
2:06 am aellislegal: RT @squirrelpants: On the mktg side, how do you find publications that fit practice area & determine which ones to focus on? #lawjobchat
2:09 am lancegodard: I think it depends to a certain degree on the practice area, @squirrelpants, but Google search and blog search are very helpful #lawjobchat
2:11 am lancegodard: Once you find the universe of titles, it’s probably pretty easy to tell which are serious and can help you market & which cannot #lawjobchat
2:12 am lancegodard: You should also talk to clients and peers to see what they read; that can be a good guide #lawjobchat
2:13 am lancegodard: If you want to discuss further @squirrelpants, please feel free to DM me #lawjobchat
2:14 am lancegodard: I think there were a couple more unanswered #lawjobchat questions. First, you can read the 22 Tweets interviews at 22Tweets.com
2:15 am mjsq: @lancegodard, thank you for joining us. Take away point: Many job-seeking attys (entry & lats) would benefit w/ biz or mkt plan! #lawjobchat
2:16 am BetsyMunnell: #lawstudents/#lawyers–New to Twitter? @lancegodard has your back..RT @aellislegal: @22twts-great way 2 find lawyers to follow #lawjobchat
2:17 am lancegodard: The “DM me” goes for anyone who wants to discuss these points further. Biz dev & mktg can be daunting but they don’t have to be #lawjobchat
2:17 am BetsyMunnell: RT @lancegodard: First: Biz dev=identifying your targets: people/companies in position to give you business or help get it #lawjobchat
2:18 am BetsyMunnell: RT @lancegodard: AND..Marketing = tactics for reaching with those targets: publications, websites, meetings, social events, etc. #lawjobchat
2:20 am lancegodard: Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat. It’s a great forum for job-seeking lawyers!
2:21 am BetsyMunnell: More clarity! @lancegodard: Biz plan= ?who/what/why?: potential clients, work opps, why hire you & Mktg Plan=how to reach them #lawjobchat
2:24 am BetsyMunnell: Finding the right publications to read? RT @lancegodard: .depends ..degree on practice area but Google/blog search helpful #lawjobchat
2:25 am BaranCLE: Good stuff! RT @lancegodard Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat a great forum for job-seeking lawyers
2:26 am AdvertisingLaw: RT @BaranCLE: Good stuff! RT @lancegodard Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat a great forum for job-seeking lawyers
2:31 am BetsyMunnell: @aellislegal @lancegodard What a great #lawjobchat. You hit all the key points for young lawyers. Look forward to RT’ing Amanda’s summary!
2:32 am adrianlurssen: RT @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal @lancegodard What a great #lawjobchat. You hit all the key points for young lawyers…
2:36 am BetsyMunnell: Including JD Supra–critical resource! @adrianlurssen: RT @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal @lancegodardGreat #lawjobchat hit all the key points
2:42 am AdvertisingLaw: Thank you @mjsq for the invite! This is a great forum for job-seeking lawyers & lawyers generally. #LawJobChat // @lancegodard @aellislegal
3:02 am lancegodard: Thanks @BetsyMunnell @AdrianLurssen @BaranCLE for your kind words re tonight’s #lawjobchat. I’m not often in the hot seat (but enjoyed it)
3:06 am paulrubell: RT @PriyaLawyer: Looking forward to it RT @lancegodard: Next week we interview @PriyaLawyerand the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat
3:35 am econwriter5: Looks like #lawjobchat was good tonight. Will have to catch up.
3:48 am aellislegal: @econwriter5 I’ll post summary + transcript tomorrow afternoon! #lawjobchat
4:17 am AdvertisingLaw: @lancegodard Lance, I appreciate the invitation from Melissa @mjsq to join in! It was a lot of fun – you did a great job! #lawjobchat
4:20 am AdvertisingLaw: RT @aellislegal @econwriter5 I’ll post summary + transcript tomorrow afternoon! #lawjobchat

Amanda Ellis’s Recap

Business Plans in Your Associate Job Search