1:00 am |
aellislegal: |
Welcome to #LawJobChat! Tonight we’re discussing the intersection of business development & your job search. #lawjobchat |
1:01 am |
aellislegal: |
We selected this topic because we are seeing more firms look to hire attorneys (including associates) with portable business #lawjobchat |
1:02 am |
aellislegal: |
We decided to invite a business dev expert to offer tips about how, when associates should dev business, including biz plan #lawjobchat |
1:02 am |
aellislegal: |
Our guest co-host/expert is @lancegodard! Lance, thanks for joining us! Tell us a bit about your background #lawjobchat |
1:04 am |
lancegodard: |
Thank you very much @aellislegal @mjsq for having me! #lawjobchat |
1:04 am |
lancegodard: |
I did international business development & marketing for an AmLaw 10 firm for 18 years (Paris, Hong Kong, US) #lawjobchat |
1:04 am |
lancegodard: |
Consulting for past 2 (as of next Mon), working w/ lawyers & firms to set BD / mktg objectives & develop plans for meeting them #lawjobchat |
1:05 am |
mjsq: |
@lancegodard congratulations on your 2 year mark! #lawjobchat #lawjobchat |
1:06 am |
aellislegal: |
and, I bet many of our chat participants have read your @22twts! Can you tell others what @22twtsis? #lawjobchat |
1:07 am |
lancegodard: |
For those of you who don?t know, 22 Tweets (@22Twts on Twitter) are live interviews of lawyers I do on Twitter #lawjobchat |
1:07 am |
lancegodard: |
It started as an experiment to explore Twitter as a comms channel, and really took off. I?ve talked to more than 80 lawyers now #lawjobchat |
1:08 am |
lancegodard: |
They?re great fun to do and (I hope) a great way for lawyers to tell their stories on Twitter, stories that clients like to hear #lawjobchat |
1:08 am |
OreLawPracMgmt: |
RT @mjsq: 30 minutes until #LawJobChat re: legal marketing & business development w/ @lancegodard! It’s going to be a good one!! |
1:09 am |
aellislegal: |
I think @22twts is a great way to find lawyers to follow – esp if a lawyer or law student is new to Twitter, looking to connect #lawjobchat |
1:10 am |
aellislegal: |
Follow @22twts for updates on @lancegodard‘s upcoming interviews with lawyers #lawjobchat |
1:11 am |
aellislegal: |
Q1 @lancegodard, when stating your background, you mentioned “business development” and “marketing” – is there a difference? #lawjobchat |
1:12 am |
lancegodard: |
Next week we interview @PriyaLawyer and the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat |
1:12 am |
lancegodard: |
Q1 Absolutely. Biz dev=identifying your targets: people / companies / etc in a position to give you business or help you get it #lawjobchat |
1:13 am |
UTLawCSO: |
RT @aellislegal: …@22twts is a great way to find lawyers to follow-esp if…law student is new to Twitter, looking to connect #lawjobchat |
1:13 am |
lancegodard: |
Q1 Marketing = tactics for reaching with those targets: publications, websites, meetings, social events, etc. #lawjobchat |
1:16 am |
aellislegal: |
Q2 @lancegodard do lawyers need a biz dev plan AND mktg strategies? Are these separate “documents”? #lawjobchat |
1:18 am |
lancegodard: |
Q2 Yes and yes. Biz plan is ?who what why?: who are potential clients, what are opps for work, why you best candidate for work #lawjobchat |
1:19 am |
lancegodard: |
Q2 Mktg plan is the how: the way you’re going to communicate with those potential clients so they know what you bring to table. #lawjobchat |
1:20 am |
aellislegal: |
Q3 @lancegodard Excellent! So, lawyers need (1) biz plan and (2) mktg plan. Which should come first or does it matter? #lawjobchat |
1:20 am |
lancegodard: |
Q2 But doesn’t have to be formal. ID your potential clients, why they should be, and how you will reach them. Write it down #lawjobchat |
1:21 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Good info – Biz Plan and Mktg Plan don’t have to be formal but should be in writing #lawjobchat |
1:22 am |
lancegodard: |
Q3 Biz plan needs to come first: you need to set goals / objectives / targets before you decide which tactics work best for each #lawjobchat |
1:23 am |
aellislegal: |
Q4 @lancegodard When should a lawyer create a biz plan? i.e., 1st year of practice, 3rd year of practice? #lawjobchat |
1:25 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 As soon as they can?. It?s a question of not waiting for good things to come your way, of being responsible for your success #lawjobchat |
1:25 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 If you know what you want, why not go thru discipline of figuring out who will buy your services & how you will reach them? #lawjobchat |
1:27 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 Although things may change at start of career, writing down a plan doesn’t mean it’s written in stone. So earlier is better #lawjobchat |
1:27 am |
reneefishman: |
@aellislegal chiming in to #lawjobchat: biz plan comes 1st; mktg plan is part of biz plan |
1:28 am |
aellislegal: |
Q4 cont @lancegodard So, a 1st year construction lit associate could identify industry orgs to join, key contacts n constrn ind? #lawjobchat |
1:30 am |
aellislegal: |
Q4 cont @lancegodard And, then const lit assoc could outline key mtgs for the orgs, lunch dates w/developers, etc as mktg plan? #lawjobchat |
1:30 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 Absolutely. And the people in the orgs to meet. And maybe what she hopes to gain from knowing those pple & being in that org #lawjobchat |
1:31 am |
aellislegal: |
Nice thought – biz plan as objectives and mktg = to do steps RT reneefishman biz plan comes 1st; mktg plan is part of biz plan #lawjobchat |
1:32 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 (slow fingers) yes, but before mktg plan she needs to think about the “who what why”: who to meet, what they bring her (cont) #lawjobchat |
1:33 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Ha! No worries, Tweetchat is sometimes slow refreshing!! #lawjobchat |
1:34 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Q4 – got it, biz plan obj first, then marketing steps #lawjobchat |
1:34 am |
lancegodard: |
Q4 and why it makes sense for them to meet her, ie why they should talk to her and ultimately help her out #lawjobchat |
1:34 am |
lawmgtguru: |
RT @aellislegal: We decided to invite a business dev expert to offer tips about how, when associates should dev business, including biz plan #lawjobchat |
1:35 am |
aellislegal: |
Q5 @lancegodard How often should an associate review/revise objectives in biz plan? Monthly? Quarterly? Annually? #lawjobchat |
1:38 am |
lancegodard: |
Q5 Regularly…. Obviously depends on how much they hope to achieve. Ideally they’d spend some time looking at it every week #lawjobchat |
1:39 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Excellent! #lawjobchat |
1:39 am |
lancegodard: |
Q5 But that may not be realistic. I’ve seen lawyers with very detailed plans that drive much of their non-legal work time #lawjobchat |
1:40 am |
aellislegal: |
Q6 @lancegodard What if the assoc is interviewing, firm doesn’t ask for biz plan, should assoc offer it? does firm size matter? #lawjobchat |
1:40 am |
lancegodard: |
Q5 and others that have vague plans they check in on from time to time. But if there’s too much to do, it won’t get done #lawjobchat |
1:41 am |
lancegodard: |
Q5 likewise, if there’s not much to do, it’s probably not really a biz dev and marketing plan…. #lawjobchat |
1:42 am |
aellislegal: |
Q6 cont @lancegodard i.e., is it appropriate to offer biz plan to mid-small firm but not to large firm (or vice versa)? #lawjobchat |
1:44 am |
lancegodard: |
Q6 I think the mid to small firms much more interested in the biz plan since those associates need to hit the ground running #lawjobchat |
1:45 am |
lancegodard: |
Q6 but in all cases, whether or not associate brings out the plan, the discipline of having done the plan will improve interview #lawjobchat |
1:46 am |
aellislegal: |
RT @lancegodard: the discipline of having done the plan will improve interview #lawjobchat |
1:46 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard I like that … having a plan improves the interview! #lawjobchat |
1:46 am |
lancegodard: |
Q6 Being able to talk about law you want to practice, market for it, clients that need it etc will make you stand out #lawjobchat |
1:48 am |
aellislegal: |
Q7 @lancegodard What’s the best way for associates to get started with creating a biz plan? what if firm doesn’t offer training? #lawjobchat |
1:49 am |
PriyaLawyer: |
Looking forward to it RT @lancegodard: Next week we interview @PriyaLawyer and the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat |
1:49 am |
aellislegal: |
RT @lancegodard: Being able to talk about law you want to practice, market for it, clients that need it will make you stand out #lawjobchat |
1:50 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 Firms should include marketing and biz dev training in their associate dev programs (it?s in their best interest)…. #lawjobchat |
1:52 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard If firms don’t offer formal training, should associate find rainmaker ptr in firm/section and talk to him/her? #lawjobchat |
1:52 am |
squirrelpants: |
On the marketing side, how do you find publications that fit your practice area & determine which ones to focus on? #lawjobchat |
1:52 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 But if no program associates can start by sharpening effective mktg skills, eg asking questions, listening to answers, etc #lawjobchat |
1:53 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 Doesn?t have to be in formal situations, but in everyday conversations they have with clients / peers / colleagues #lawjobchat |
1:53 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Or, should the associate look outside the firm? Coach/trainer, publications to read for guidance? #lawjobchat |
1:54 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 If they need extra help, there are many things they can do. First, there exist a lot of good materials online now #lawjobchat |
1:55 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 eg templates, plans, articles, etc. Hiring a marketing coach / trainer always a possibility. Investing now will pay off later #lawjobchat |
1:55 am |
aellislegal: |
@squirrelpants clarification – publication where you want to publish or publication to read? #lawjobchat |
1:56 am |
aellislegal: |
Q7 @lancegodard Can you recommend any online sites as a starting point? #lawjobchat |
1:59 am |
aellislegal: |
Finally, back to @22twts – is there a site where ppl can read past interviews? What if someone wants to be interviewed? #lawjobchat |
2:00 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 JD Supra law practice section is good, Larry Bodine’s Law Marketing Portal, I have blog of mktg / BD reading recommendations #lawjobchat |
2:01 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 and there an ever-increasing number of LinkedIn groups that deal with law marketing and biz dev #lawjobchat |
2:01 am |
aellislegal: |
Excellent! RT @lancegodard: JD Supra law practice sect is good, Larry Bodines Law Marketing Portal, my blog BD reading recs #lawjobchat |
2:02 am |
lancegodard: |
Q7 Finally, I think that lawyers need to look to other industries for help and ideas, esp professional services but not only #lawjobchat |
2:03 am |
mjsq: |
Q7 cont. I’d add on re: LinkedIn to join groups related to practice areas that may not be legally-oriented. #lawjobchat |
2:03 am |
aellislegal: |
@lancegodard Thank you for chatting w/us! You’ve provided excellent biz dev tips to help associates stand out in interviews! #lawjobchat |
2:04 am |
mjsq: |
Q7. e.g., an group related to energy but not only for energy lawyers #lawjobchat |
2:05 am |
aellislegal: |
FYI, all – our Nov chat will be the 3rd Thurs (instead of last Thurs) b/c of T’giving — next chat is 11/18 at 9pm Eastern #lawjobchat |
2:05 am |
lancegodard: |
@aellislegal you’re very welcome, it’s been a lot of fun! I could have gone on for another hour (or two)! #lawjobchat |
2:06 am |
aellislegal: |
RT @squirrelpants: On the mktg side, how do you find publications that fit practice area & determine which ones to focus on? #lawjobchat |
2:09 am |
lancegodard: |
I think it depends to a certain degree on the practice area, @squirrelpants, but Google search and blog search are very helpful #lawjobchat |
2:11 am |
lancegodard: |
Once you find the universe of titles, it’s probably pretty easy to tell which are serious and can help you market & which cannot #lawjobchat |
2:12 am |
lancegodard: |
You should also talk to clients and peers to see what they read; that can be a good guide #lawjobchat |
2:13 am |
lancegodard: |
If you want to discuss further @squirrelpants, please feel free to DM me #lawjobchat |
2:14 am |
lancegodard: |
I think there were a couple more unanswered #lawjobchat questions. First, you can read the 22 Tweets interviews at 22Tweets.com |
2:15 am |
mjsq: |
@lancegodard, thank you for joining us. Take away point: Many job-seeking attys (entry & lats) would benefit w/ biz or mkt plan! #lawjobchat |
2:16 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
#lawstudents/#lawyers–New to Twitter? @lancegodard has your back..RT @aellislegal: @22twts-great way 2 find lawyers to follow #lawjobchat |
2:17 am |
lancegodard: |
The “DM me” goes for anyone who wants to discuss these points further. Biz dev & mktg can be daunting but they don’t have to be #lawjobchat |
2:17 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
RT @lancegodard: First: Biz dev=identifying your targets: people/companies in position to give you business or help get it #lawjobchat |
2:18 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
RT @lancegodard: AND..Marketing = tactics for reaching with those targets: publications, websites, meetings, social events, etc. #lawjobchat |
2:20 am |
lancegodard: |
Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat. It’s a great forum for job-seeking lawyers! |
2:21 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
More clarity! @lancegodard: Biz plan= ?who/what/why?: potential clients, work opps, why hire you & Mktg Plan=how to reach them #lawjobchat |
2:24 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
Finding the right publications to read? RT @lancegodard: .depends ..degree on practice area but Google/blog search helpful #lawjobchat |
2:25 am |
BaranCLE: |
Good stuff! RT @lancegodard Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat a great forum for job-seeking lawyers |
2:26 am |
AdvertisingLaw: |
RT @BaranCLE: Good stuff! RT @lancegodard Thank you again to @mjsq and @aellislegal for having me on #lawjobchat a great forum for job-seeking lawyers |
2:31 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
@aellislegal @lancegodard What a great #lawjobchat. You hit all the key points for young lawyers. Look forward to RT’ing Amanda’s summary! |
2:32 am |
adrianlurssen: |
RT @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal @lancegodard What a great #lawjobchat. You hit all the key points for young lawyers… |
2:36 am |
BetsyMunnell: |
Including JD Supra–critical resource! @adrianlurssen: RT @BetsyMunnell @aellislegal @lancegodardGreat #lawjobchat hit all the key points |
2:42 am |
AdvertisingLaw: |
Thank you @mjsq for the invite! This is a great forum for job-seeking lawyers & lawyers generally. #LawJobChat // @lancegodard @aellislegal |
3:02 am |
lancegodard: |
Thanks @BetsyMunnell @AdrianLurssen @BaranCLE for your kind words re tonight’s #lawjobchat. I’m not often in the hot seat (but enjoyed it) |
3:06 am |
paulrubell: |
RT @PriyaLawyer: Looking forward to it RT @lancegodard: Next week we interview @PriyaLawyerand the week after @paulrubell #22Twts #Lawjobchat |
3:35 am |
econwriter5: |
Looks like #lawjobchat was good tonight. Will have to catch up. |
3:48 am |
aellislegal: |
@econwriter5 I’ll post summary + transcript tomorrow afternoon! #lawjobchat |
4:17 am |
AdvertisingLaw: |
@lancegodard Lance, I appreciate the invitation from Melissa @mjsq to join in! It was a lot of fun – you did a great job! #lawjobchat |
4:20 am |
AdvertisingLaw: |
RT @aellislegal @econwriter5 I’ll post summary + transcript tomorrow afternoon! #lawjobchat |